3 ms·

> While it looks neat, I’m not convinced we’ll see barebone single board computers where users can insert their own eMMC flash and RAM any time soon, since it w

by Syonyk 5y ago

> While it looks neat, I’m not convinced we’ll see barebone single board computers where users can insert their own eMMC flash and RAM any time soon, since it would likely add to the overall costs. A more likely use would be for board vendors wanting to test RAM chips from various vendors and of different capacities. Most SBCs use socketed eMMC chips available in various capacities. Pine64 and Odroid's eMMCs are compatible, at least, and live on a tiny little board you can swap out. I don't see the cost and complexity as being worth it, though. Just stuff the things full of RAM, have lower capacity options, and solder it - same as we see today. Yes, it's nice on paper to swap the RAM out, but I guarantee these sockets aren't cheap, and for something that's used once or twice, eh. Not worth the hassle... I like things that are easily repaired, but I also don't see a huge wave of ARM SBC RAM failures. They're already repairable, it just requires hot air rework and a bit more skill than swapping a DIMM.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"They're already repairable, it just requires hot air rework and a bit more skill than swapping a DIMM." Where do I find people who can do that? I google 'electronics repair London' and all I get are little shops where a dude with a screwdriver might replace a RAM stick, which I can do myself too! If I search for 'hot air rework' I get people trying to sell me kit. If an engineer can't find a place for such repair in the largest megacity on the continent, what hope is there for an average Joe? Also for chromebooks and crapbook worth $200-$300, how is that rare person going to charge for his time?
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Your last point explains your former difficulty. There’s no retail willingness to pay, but a lot of willingness to inquire and waste someone’s time. Start with an in-country PCBA firm; they’re likely to have someone or know someone. Alternatively, inquire on an enthusiast forum (eevblog) or talk to your local Ham radio club. The same reason no one is advertising this skill to retail buyers of $200 electronics is the reason to not include a spurious $2-4 socket.
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    $2-4? If only. This socket is more like $50-60 -- probably more expensive than the rest of the board. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      What would a (much more complicated) LGA 1200 socket cost if it wasn’t already a high-volume part? I can buy one for $85 and they’ll throw it in a retail box with a whole motherboard, multiple PCIe, DRAM, DisplayPort/HDMI/VGA connectors, Ethernet and USB controllers, as well.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    "There’s no retail willingness to pay, but a lot of willingness to inquire and waste someone’s time." I was willing to pay good money for GPU repair, sent out a few emails and heard back only crickets - maybe I wasn't looking in the right place, dunno. But yeah, repairing minor stuff might not be cost effective
- Syonyk 5y ago
  > Where do I find people who can do that? Your local hackerspace/makerspace is likely to have people who can do it, though I don't know how you'd find people who do it professionally. It's a bit of a weird niche, though as the supply chains continue to crumble I expect it to become a more popular one in the years to come. But if you can't find anyone who does it, perhaps there's an opportunity for you to jump into! I expect this sort of thing to take the form of people who buy "broken, parts only" equipment on eBay/Craigslist/etc and fix it at their own location, on their own time, and then resell it, though. It's less likely to be a customer facing activity.
- userbinator 5y ago
  Look for mobile phone repair shops.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  > Also for chromebooks and crapbook worth $200-$300, how is that rare person going to charge for his time? I think you stumbled across the problem: troubleshooting and repairing the device will probably cost $200. If the device is under warranty, it's easier to send it back. If it's not, it's more cost effective to replace it.
  - varispeed 5y ago
    It's not like you have to pay yourself $200 for repairing / upgrading your device. But this is quite rewarding and worth spending time on just for the feeling that you fixed something. Certainly I would prefer this than spending an hour watching Netflix.
- varispeed 5y ago
  It's probably not viable as business. You can buy a rework station for under £100 these days and it does not take up a lot space, so you could store it away in the storage among other tools needed but rarely used. I mean, for instance, my dad was never into electronics, but we had a soldering iron at home, just in case a wire needs to be redone etc. Times have changed and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a rework station in every home. Maybe the name "rework station" sounds misleading, like you would need a dedicated bedroom to use it... But to redo a couple of chips is no different than taking your blender from under the stairs to do a smoothie.
- imtringued 5y ago
  I'm sorry but searching 'hot air rework bga' leads to better results... https://youtu.be/i9qC7x5QHIo?t=221 https://youtu.be/i9qC7x5QHIo?t=221 Don't forget that you must replace the solder balls on desoldered chips with a stencil. Your new bga chip should come with solder balls though.
- GrantZvolsky 5y ago
  Sorin[1] is based in some London repair shop. It is probably viable because he repairs cheap laptops among other things. He also takes mail orders, but I haven't seen him mention any contact info in his videos. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBYpyI6OW64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBYpyI6OW64

by Syonyk 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"They're already repairable, it just requires hot air rework and a bit more skill than swapping a DIMM." Where do I find people who can do that? I google 'electronics repair London' and all I get are little shops where a dude with a screwdriver might replace a RAM stick, which I can do myself too! If I search for 'hot air rework' I get people trying to sell me kit. If an engineer can't find a place for such repair in the largest megacity on the continent, what hope is there for an average Joe? Also for chromebooks and crapbook worth $200-$300, how is that rare person going to charge for his time?

sokoloff 5y ago
Your last point explains your former difficulty. There’s no retail willingness to pay, but a lot of willingness to inquire and waste someone’s time. Start with an in-country PCBA firm; they’re likely to have someone or know someone. Alternatively, inquire on an enthusiast forum (eevblog) or talk to your local Ham radio club. The same reason no one is advertising this skill to retail buyers of $200 electronics is the reason to not include a spurious $2-4 socket.
- duskwuff 5y ago
  $2-4? If only. This socket is more like $50-60 -- probably more expensive than the rest of the board. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001841972537.html
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    What would a (much more complicated) LGA 1200 socket cost if it wasn’t already a high-volume part? I can buy one for $85 and they’ll throw it in a retail box with a whole motherboard, multiple PCIe, DRAM, DisplayPort/HDMI/VGA connectors, Ethernet and USB controllers, as well.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "There’s no retail willingness to pay, but a lot of willingness to inquire and waste someone’s time." I was willing to pay good money for GPU repair, sent out a few emails and heard back only crickets - maybe I wasn't looking in the right place, dunno. But yeah, repairing minor stuff might not be cost effective
Syonyk 5y ago
> Where do I find people who can do that? Your local hackerspace/makerspace is likely to have people who can do it, though I don't know how you'd find people who do it professionally. It's a bit of a weird niche, though as the supply chains continue to crumble I expect it to become a more popular one in the years to come. But if you can't find anyone who does it, perhaps there's an opportunity for you to jump into! I expect this sort of thing to take the form of people who buy "broken, parts only" equipment on eBay/Craigslist/etc and fix it at their own location, on their own time, and then resell it, though. It's less likely to be a customer facing activity.
userbinator 5y ago
Look for mobile phone repair shops.
dehrmann 5y ago
> Also for chromebooks and crapbook worth $200-$300, how is that rare person going to charge for his time? I think you stumbled across the problem: troubleshooting and repairing the device will probably cost $200. If the device is under warranty, it's easier to send it back. If it's not, it's more cost effective to replace it.
- varispeed 5y ago
  It's not like you have to pay yourself $200 for repairing / upgrading your device. But this is quite rewarding and worth spending time on just for the feeling that you fixed something. Certainly I would prefer this than spending an hour watching Netflix.
varispeed 5y ago
It's probably not viable as business. You can buy a rework station for under £100 these days and it does not take up a lot space, so you could store it away in the storage among other tools needed but rarely used. I mean, for instance, my dad was never into electronics, but we had a soldering iron at home, just in case a wire needs to be redone etc. Times have changed and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a rework station in every home. Maybe the name "rework station" sounds misleading, like you would need a dedicated bedroom to use it... But to redo a couple of chips is no different than taking your blender from under the stairs to do a smoothie.
imtringued 5y ago
I'm sorry but searching 'hot air rework bga' leads to better results... https://youtu.be/i9qC7x5QHIo?t=221 https://youtu.be/i9qC7x5QHIo?t=221 Don't forget that you must replace the solder balls on desoldered chips with a stencil. Your new bga chip should come with solder balls though.
GrantZvolsky 5y ago
Sorin[1] is based in some London repair shop. It is probably viable because he repairs cheap laptops among other things. He also takes mail orders, but I haven't seen him mention any contact info in his videos. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBYpyI6OW64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBYpyI6OW64