5 ms·

This is part of why I left my job. I had the realization that my dream (homeownership/2 kids) was untenable with my income (~$135K TC) in my area. I could certa

This is part of why I left my job. I had the realization that my dream (homeownership/2 kids) was untenable with my income (~$135K TC) in my area. I could certainly get the credit for it, but my life would be one long hardship living under wage slavery, being house-poor, having little free time, paying exorbitantly to watch others raise my kids, and not having the opportunities I currently have... I kinda gave up on that dream, being priced out. So I quit, either to make a TC which can afford that life (>$200K/yr) or to live the rest of my days in a hedonistic manner. Current plan is to grind leetcode/sys design and apply to high-TC companies over and over until I can afford the life I want, or die trying.

mgh2 4y ago
Where do you live that is unaffordable?
- eulers_secret 4y ago
  I still live there, a suburb of Portland OR. I locked in a cheap apartment years ago that's now rent controlled, which makes my situation possible. I currently pay about half what new renters pay. Without it, I'd be stuck in wage-slavery anyways and couldn't take the time to self-improve like this. Moving is an option (my partner has restrictions: No states with anti-abortion laws, which removes many inexpensive places), if I go remote. Seems like every other dev has the same idea and that's helping drive prices up everywhere - along with other factors, of course.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Friends of mine who make a combined way less than you bought new construction across the river in Vancouver, WA. Even staying just in the State of Oregon finds places under $200k (perhaps not the most desirable of building types, but certainly above a mobile home). But that may really put you in the "sticks" - south middle of Oregon is some of the most unpopulated land in the USA. Rent-control may end up trapping you in another way; fear to move because of your current deal. Had a friend stay in a three-bedroom apartment long after he should have moved up to a house for just this reason.
  - zo1 4y ago
    That is an oddly-specific restriction your partner is demanding.
    - sangnoir 4y ago
      It may just be a shibboleth/canary for a set of state politics the partner disagrees with.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Seems very reasonable to want women to have access to healthcare they might need in worst case scenarios. I would even throw in requirements of parental leave, amongst other basic protections. Assisted suicide comes to mind too.
      - mrep 4y ago
        If abortion law, something you can simply drive to another state for a once in a lifetime event is in your requirements for where you can live, don't be surprised when people roll their eyes at you when you bitch about housing costs. Penny wise pound foolish.
        lotsofpulp 4y ago
        One may also not want to contribute to those leaders on principle, and instead reward the other leaders even though it costs more. Also, this type of stuff is costly to deal with, in terms of emotional and physical health, and probably even monetary costs: https://www.thecut.com/2022/04/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-an-alleged-abortion.html https://www.thecut.com/2022/04/texas-woman-charged-with-murd... > She miscarried at a hospital and allegedly confided to hospital staff that she had attempted to induce her own abortion and she was reported to the authorities by hospital administration or staff,” Here, you have precedent being set that a woman should play it safe and withhold information from their healthcare provider, lest they be put through an ordeal like this.
        mrep 4y ago
tough 4y ago
Look into equal work, equal pay companies (was trending on twitter like yesterday) That I can remember of: Vercel, Gatsby, Gitlab, and much more. Move to somewhere cheaper if you can?
cmckn 4y ago
Sounds like you haven’t given up on your ‘dream’ if you’re currently still grinding to attain it. Hate to break it to you, but many, many people raise kids and own a home with way less than $135k, even in your area. If you don’t want to attempt it because it’ll be hard, stressful, risky, etc.; maybe that’s worth reflecting on? Sometimes your standards/expectations are what need to change.
- draw_down 4y ago
- watwut 4y ago
  Maybe it should not be risky to have 2 kids for an average person. And also simultaneously, especially American culture is super judgemental of people whonhave kids and struggle financially in any way. It is big in personal responsibility in relation to having them, paying health care or ensuring school or even supervising etc. I find it unfair that in same environment people end up blamed for having too high standards when they internalize all that and insist on being responsible and financially well off.
spaniard89277 4y ago
COL and everything, 135K is like the 1% in Spain. On topic: I have the same feeling. I'm trying to get a dev job, that would be a huge jump of income for me. But I'm 34, how much should I grind just to get "entry-level" stuff? I was pretty unmativated in my job, just coasting by and pretty much doing the bare minimum that allowed me to be in peace with myself. Remote work increased my productivity and my hapiness overall, but it's still insufficient to buy a home, I'm basically a rent slave. If I get a dev job, it will probably mean 30-40k to me, here in Spain. Maybe 50K if I manage to climb the ladder, given I'm 34. With that income I can buy a flat (not a house) in my mid-sized spanish city, but that's about it.
- azinman2 4y ago
  135k is closer to 1% in the US than you’d think.
  - sologoub 4y ago
    Not in the Bay Area, this is article from 2020 and even then $384k got you only in the top 10%. $105k was basically median. Source: https://amp.thecalifornian.com/amp/4625295002 https://amp.thecalifornian.com/amp/4625295002 The national percentile doesn’t really matter when your income is not portable, and you can’t just move and take it with you. As another post said, it’s doable on $135k but it’s not easy in the SF Bay Area.
    - xur17 4y ago
      > The national percentile doesn’t really matter when your income is not portable, and you can’t just move and take it with you. With remote work, it's a lot more portable than you might think.
      - sologoub 4y ago
        For some, yes. Unfortunately, this is not as evenly available as one might hope or even as widely as it was used during pandemic.
prpl 4y ago
I bought a house with 3 kids in the bay area (San Leandro) on slightly less than $135k (wife stays at home), but I had a rent controlled apartment in SF for 9 years. I bought at a good time (August 2020) and was able to use 403b without penalty. Kids go to public schools. All three kids are in one room, but it’s a very large room, and we have a cottage which is my office for now but the teenager can go there later. It’s possible but not easy (and harder now), and you have to be patient and careful and a bit lucky.
Solvitieg 4y ago
I currently have enough money saved to travel the world for 5 years. That's a long time. Imagine how much more fulfilling that journey would be than putting this money towards a lowend 1-bedroom condo in Vancouver and then working 20 years at a high-end career to pay it off. Insane proposition. VHCOL cities are not appealing anymore. I want out.
- deanCommie 4y ago
  If your perspective on housing is "just need a place to live", then paying off a mortgage for 20 years is hardly a problem. You are tied down, yes, but if you have friends and family in the area and like where you live, it's hardly a problem - it's just a life. (Of course this is different if the intention is "buy a place, wait until it rises in value, flip it, and repeat") That said, you need to want to put down roots, and you need to like where you're putting those down. I love Vancouver, I've been here 20 years, I left for 5, and came back. This is where I want to raise my kids. But this is a highly privileged perspective backed by having a good well-paying job that lets me afford to live here (in a 3-bedroom condo in east van). Still, travelling the world for 5 years sounds like a fantastic plan to figure out what you want to do in life and scouting out parts of the world that you can imagine living. That could mean finding something more rural, or finding a city more off the beaten path that you identify with that doesn't have international prestige and ridiculous VHCOL.
  - nunez 4y ago
    honestly, "hey, spending 20 years of your life paying to "own" the roof over your head" sounds sad to me...unless you have dependents and need the stability not everyone has dreams of planting roots
    - deanCommie 4y ago
      If you don't want to plant roots, then you don't need to own a house, and then the whole debate about housing prices does not apply to you. Rent, travel and see the world, and be free!
imtringued 4y ago
That won't solve the problem. Soon you will complain that you can't live in a mansion on your $300k/yr salary.

mgh2 4y ago

Where do you live that is unaffordable?

eulers_secret 4y ago
I still live there, a suburb of Portland OR. I locked in a cheap apartment years ago that's now rent controlled, which makes my situation possible. I currently pay about half what new renters pay. Without it, I'd be stuck in wage-slavery anyways and couldn't take the time to self-improve like this. Moving is an option (my partner has restrictions: No states with anti-abortion laws, which removes many inexpensive places), if I go remote. Seems like every other dev has the same idea and that's helping drive prices up everywhere - along with other factors, of course.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Friends of mine who make a combined way less than you bought new construction across the river in Vancouver, WA. Even staying just in the State of Oregon finds places under $200k (perhaps not the most desirable of building types, but certainly above a mobile home). But that may really put you in the "sticks" - south middle of Oregon is some of the most unpopulated land in the USA. Rent-control may end up trapping you in another way; fear to move because of your current deal. Had a friend stay in a three-bedroom apartment long after he should have moved up to a house for just this reason.
- zo1 4y ago
  That is an oddly-specific restriction your partner is demanding.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    It may just be a shibboleth/canary for a set of state politics the partner disagrees with.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Seems very reasonable to want women to have access to healthcare they might need in worst case scenarios. I would even throw in requirements of parental leave, amongst other basic protections. Assisted suicide comes to mind too.
    - mrep 4y ago
      If abortion law, something you can simply drive to another state for a once in a lifetime event is in your requirements for where you can live, don't be surprised when people roll their eyes at you when you bitch about housing costs. Penny wise pound foolish.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        One may also not want to contribute to those leaders on principle, and instead reward the other leaders even though it costs more. Also, this type of stuff is costly to deal with, in terms of emotional and physical health, and probably even monetary costs: https://www.thecut.com/2022/04/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-an-alleged-abortion.html https://www.thecut.com/2022/04/texas-woman-charged-with-murd... > She miscarried at a hospital and allegedly confided to hospital staff that she had attempted to induce her own abortion and she was reported to the authorities by hospital administration or staff,” Here, you have precedent being set that a woman should play it safe and withhold information from their healthcare provider, lest they be put through an ordeal like this.
        mrep 4y ago

tough 4y ago

Look into equal work, equal pay companies (was trending on twitter like yesterday) That I can remember of: Vercel, Gatsby, Gitlab, and much more. Move to somewhere cheaper if you can?

cmckn 4y ago

Sounds like you haven’t given up on your ‘dream’ if you’re currently still grinding to attain it. Hate to break it to you, but many, many people raise kids and own a home with way less than $135k, even in your area. If you don’t want to attempt it because it’ll be hard, stressful, risky, etc.; maybe that’s worth reflecting on? Sometimes your standards/expectations are what need to change.

draw_down 4y ago
watwut 4y ago
Maybe it should not be risky to have 2 kids for an average person. And also simultaneously, especially American culture is super judgemental of people whonhave kids and struggle financially in any way. It is big in personal responsibility in relation to having them, paying health care or ensuring school or even supervising etc. I find it unfair that in same environment people end up blamed for having too high standards when they internalize all that and insist on being responsible and financially well off.

spaniard89277 4y ago

COL and everything, 135K is like the 1% in Spain. On topic: I have the same feeling. I'm trying to get a dev job, that would be a huge jump of income for me. But I'm 34, how much should I grind just to get "entry-level" stuff? I was pretty unmativated in my job, just coasting by and pretty much doing the bare minimum that allowed me to be in peace with myself. Remote work increased my productivity and my hapiness overall, but it's still insufficient to buy a home, I'm basically a rent slave. If I get a dev job, it will probably mean 30-40k to me, here in Spain. Maybe 50K if I manage to climb the ladder, given I'm 34. With that income I can buy a flat (not a house) in my mid-sized spanish city, but that's about it.

azinman2 4y ago
135k is closer to 1% in the US than you’d think.
- sologoub 4y ago
  Not in the Bay Area, this is article from 2020 and even then $384k got you only in the top 10%. $105k was basically median. Source: https://amp.thecalifornian.com/amp/4625295002 https://amp.thecalifornian.com/amp/4625295002 The national percentile doesn’t really matter when your income is not portable, and you can’t just move and take it with you. As another post said, it’s doable on $135k but it’s not easy in the SF Bay Area.
  - xur17 4y ago
    > The national percentile doesn’t really matter when your income is not portable, and you can’t just move and take it with you. With remote work, it's a lot more portable than you might think.
    - sologoub 4y ago
      For some, yes. Unfortunately, this is not as evenly available as one might hope or even as widely as it was used during pandemic.

prpl 4y ago

I bought a house with 3 kids in the bay area (San Leandro) on slightly less than $135k (wife stays at home), but I had a rent controlled apartment in SF for 9 years. I bought at a good time (August 2020) and was able to use 403b without penalty. Kids go to public schools. All three kids are in one room, but it’s a very large room, and we have a cottage which is my office for now but the teenager can go there later. It’s possible but not easy (and harder now), and you have to be patient and careful and a bit lucky.

Solvitieg 4y ago

I currently have enough money saved to travel the world for 5 years. That's a long time. Imagine how much more fulfilling that journey would be than putting this money towards a lowend 1-bedroom condo in Vancouver and then working 20 years at a high-end career to pay it off. Insane proposition. VHCOL cities are not appealing anymore. I want out.

deanCommie 4y ago
If your perspective on housing is "just need a place to live", then paying off a mortgage for 20 years is hardly a problem. You are tied down, yes, but if you have friends and family in the area and like where you live, it's hardly a problem - it's just a life. (Of course this is different if the intention is "buy a place, wait until it rises in value, flip it, and repeat") That said, you need to want to put down roots, and you need to like where you're putting those down. I love Vancouver, I've been here 20 years, I left for 5, and came back. This is where I want to raise my kids. But this is a highly privileged perspective backed by having a good well-paying job that lets me afford to live here (in a 3-bedroom condo in east van). Still, travelling the world for 5 years sounds like a fantastic plan to figure out what you want to do in life and scouting out parts of the world that you can imagine living. That could mean finding something more rural, or finding a city more off the beaten path that you identify with that doesn't have international prestige and ridiculous VHCOL.
- nunez 4y ago
  honestly, "hey, spending 20 years of your life paying to "own" the roof over your head" sounds sad to me...unless you have dependents and need the stability not everyone has dreams of planting roots
  - deanCommie 4y ago
    If you don't want to plant roots, then you don't need to own a house, and then the whole debate about housing prices does not apply to you. Rent, travel and see the world, and be free!

imtringued 4y ago

That won't solve the problem. Soon you will complain that you can't live in a mansion on your $300k/yr salary.