8 ms·

Maybe for those men lucky enough to have families. A growing issue is the large percentage of men who do not and will likely never have families to ever take c

Maybe for those men lucky enough to have families. A growing issue is the large percentage of men who do not and will likely never have families to ever take care of. If we think deadbeat dads unstable, the incel community is a madhouse.

fartcannon 5y ago
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  Some of them call themselves that.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Who cares what they call themselves? That's theres to decide. Do you want them in or out? If you want them out, call them incels, if you want them in, give them the dignity of any other human and call them men.
  - hardrcafe 5y ago
- sandworm101 5y ago
  Incels are a part, not all of that group. But they are a percentage. A greater number of perpetually single men, those who do in fact want a family as opposed to thise who chose not to have one, does mean a greater number of radical incels. Even without going full radical incel, a great many single males lose hope and lose thier drive to achieve. I work with some. They just dont care about work/money/stability/future in the same was as people with dependant families.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
  - recuter 5y ago
    I'm curios if there is a female equivalent of a radical incel?
    - blueflow 5y ago
    - unpopularopp 5y ago
      /r/TwoXChromosomes/ (which is funnily one of the most toxic subs I have ever seen but reddit dare to touch it)
      - nicolas_t 5y ago
        I haven't been there much but the few discussions I've seen there weren't that toxic, nowhere near Red Pill... I'm curious if you have any examples?
    - empathy_m 5y ago
      /r/femaledatingstrategy has an interesting option that may have similar levels of insularity and cultural integrity.
    - jason0597 5y ago
      /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
    - Tade0 5y ago
      It's actually how the term was originally coined - the first person to identify as an incel was a woman. Perhaps without the "radical" adjective, though. As a brother of two sisters I would say that (unsurprisingly) the proportion of incels is the same in both sexes, they just express it differently. Women incels are not nearly as visible, but they're there. One thing they do have in common though is a tendency to get fixated on someone/something, so they're over represented in IT.
rayiner 5y ago
It’s not a matter of luck—men in my dad’s village in Bangladesh start families, have kids, and live relatively happy lives in poverty even most poor Americans could not comprehend. I don’t think it’s fair to call all these guys incels. As the article observes, most just have no expectations placed on them, and also have no way of attaining dignity and social worth through the avenues in life reasonably available to them.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  It is sunday morning. I'm at work (military). Part of that job is checking in with people at a half-dozen other locations who are also at work on a sunday morning. they just happen to all be hetero guys, which is not unusual in the military no matter the day. So I asked in our chat whether they had wives/girlfriends at home today. "No." "Nope." "My car is my GF" and "Rocking a peppi shirt under my uniform". These are single guys in their mid-twenties and thirties. They have jobs. Most are university-educated officers. They look good in their uniforms, especially with the medals. But they work sunday mornings because they don't have families and don't go out saturday nights. I worry about this trend.
  - jonahx 5y ago
    Interesting. What do you attribute this to? Is it mostly just lifestyle choice? Or would most of them prefer to have a wife/gf but don't have one for whatever reason?
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      A stable job just doesn't compete anymore. Single heterosexual girls want guys with prospects and/or family money. Some of these guys are afraid of dating, afraid that something might go wrong that could impact their careers. Deployments have also changed. Soldiers don't date or even talk to local girls anymore. Interestingly, many of these guys are also stone-sober. Not recovering alcoholics. They just don't drink. They don't ever hook up at bars. That bar scene you see in every military movie never happens. They always seem to be on guard for situations that might hurt their career. COVID-related lockdowns haven't helped either.
ryan93 5y ago
incels commit almost no violence against women compared to men in relationships
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  A large supply of men who DGAF and don't have much holding them down is how you get really serious social instability. They might not be beating their wives but let it roll unchecked for 20yr and it gets bad.
  - BlargMcLarg 5y ago
    Men who DGAF aren't the same as "incels". You and GP aren't at odds with one another. And yes, it is somewhat ironic society is making the exact same mistakes it has before: forgetting how destructive a large population of uninterested young men is towards society, without ever having to be violent.
    - meken 5y ago
      Could you say more about this? What historical events are you referring to? I consider myself a disaffected male, and am curious to understand my situation from a historical perspective.
      - Multicomp 5y ago
        I'm not GP and can only guess, and not even a particularly educated guess, but I will try, because I too am curious, and everyone knows the best way to get an answer on the web is to post a confident-sounding answer so someone can 'correct me' therefore giving me the actual information I'm hopeful to receive. I remember (and therefore don't have a source for) users on the web claiming the rise of fascism was enabled partly by strongman leaders engaging all of the disaffected men en masse to serve said strongman's agenda by offering them the things they wanted (respect, status, stability). If my tripping of Godwin's Law is on the right track, then the GP may be referring to Weimar Germany where Hitler was able to take control over a very quick timeframe, starting with disaffected men and eventually spreading the message to the general populace, taking over the country's government sans violence (though there was certainly violence and intimidation near the end of the Weimar government and probably before then that I am unaware of). Or, much more likely, the GP meant something else entirely, and I am Wrong On The Internet!
scythe 5y ago
Much like radical identity politicking Twitter users, the cultural impact and attention-getting of "incels" far exceeds their actual frequency in the population, and is frequently magnified for the purposes of scaremongering. It's not rare for radfems to cry "incel" whenever someone has a complaint about the new libertinism, just as it isn't rare for #metoo opponents to complain about "cancel culture" when someone gets in trouble for committing an actual crime. The vast majority of people have more quotidian difficulties. The fact that liberal tabloids and influencers are eager to refer to rich and famous men as "incels" when they obviously can't be reveals that the word is just an insult in many cases, not a product of a serious analysis of society.
DeWilde 5y ago
Is that really an issue? If you are a stable personality finding a mate isn't that much of an issue. Especially today with high mobility and dating apps if you put your back to it you can find a partner.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  >> If you are a stable personality finding a mate isn't that much of an issue. So those without mates are possibly not stable? Good luck finding a date if you work in an predominantly male area such as a northern mining town or military base. Good luck funding a mate if you are stuck in a bad job/career. Good luck funding a mate if you are stuck taking care of disabled/elderly family members. A stable personality guarantees nothing.
  - DeWilde 5y ago
    > So those without mates are possibly not stable? Of course not. You can be stable and not be interested for a mate. Or as you pointed out, there can be huge friction between a person and their mate because of a job or circumstances. But aren't those cases a minority, a exception to the rule? Even people in the military or working in extreme areas don't do that most of their lives. And this isn't something new really, frontiersmen and sailors faced same issues in the 20th and 19th centuries (and since forever really). I was thinking about a people who are stable and also have a chance and will to find a mate.

fartcannon 5y ago

PaulHoule 5y ago
Some of them call themselves that.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  Who cares what they call themselves? That's theres to decide. Do you want them in or out? If you want them out, call them incels, if you want them in, give them the dignity of any other human and call them men.
- hardrcafe 5y ago
sandworm101 5y ago
Incels are a part, not all of that group. But they are a percentage. A greater number of perpetually single men, those who do in fact want a family as opposed to thise who chose not to have one, does mean a greater number of radical incels. Even without going full radical incel, a great many single males lose hope and lose thier drive to achieve. I work with some. They just dont care about work/money/stability/future in the same was as people with dependant families.
- fartcannon 5y ago
- recuter 5y ago
  I'm curios if there is a female equivalent of a radical incel?
  - blueflow 5y ago
  - unpopularopp 5y ago
    /r/TwoXChromosomes/ (which is funnily one of the most toxic subs I have ever seen but reddit dare to touch it)
    - nicolas_t 5y ago
      I haven't been there much but the few discussions I've seen there weren't that toxic, nowhere near Red Pill... I'm curious if you have any examples?
  - empathy_m 5y ago
    /r/femaledatingstrategy has an interesting option that may have similar levels of insularity and cultural integrity.
  - jason0597 5y ago
    /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
  - Tade0 5y ago
    It's actually how the term was originally coined - the first person to identify as an incel was a woman. Perhaps without the "radical" adjective, though. As a brother of two sisters I would say that (unsurprisingly) the proportion of incels is the same in both sexes, they just express it differently. Women incels are not nearly as visible, but they're there. One thing they do have in common though is a tendency to get fixated on someone/something, so they're over represented in IT.

rayiner 5y ago

It’s not a matter of luck—men in my dad’s village in Bangladesh start families, have kids, and live relatively happy lives in poverty even most poor Americans could not comprehend. I don’t think it’s fair to call all these guys incels. As the article observes, most just have no expectations placed on them, and also have no way of attaining dignity and social worth through the avenues in life reasonably available to them.

sandworm101 5y ago
It is sunday morning. I'm at work (military). Part of that job is checking in with people at a half-dozen other locations who are also at work on a sunday morning. they just happen to all be hetero guys, which is not unusual in the military no matter the day. So I asked in our chat whether they had wives/girlfriends at home today. "No." "Nope." "My car is my GF" and "Rocking a peppi shirt under my uniform". These are single guys in their mid-twenties and thirties. They have jobs. Most are university-educated officers. They look good in their uniforms, especially with the medals. But they work sunday mornings because they don't have families and don't go out saturday nights. I worry about this trend.
- jonahx 5y ago
  Interesting. What do you attribute this to? Is it mostly just lifestyle choice? Or would most of them prefer to have a wife/gf but don't have one for whatever reason?
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    A stable job just doesn't compete anymore. Single heterosexual girls want guys with prospects and/or family money. Some of these guys are afraid of dating, afraid that something might go wrong that could impact their careers. Deployments have also changed. Soldiers don't date or even talk to local girls anymore. Interestingly, many of these guys are also stone-sober. Not recovering alcoholics. They just don't drink. They don't ever hook up at bars. That bar scene you see in every military movie never happens. They always seem to be on guard for situations that might hurt their career. COVID-related lockdowns haven't helped either.

ryan93 5y ago

incels commit almost no violence against women compared to men in relationships

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
A large supply of men who DGAF and don't have much holding them down is how you get really serious social instability. They might not be beating their wives but let it roll unchecked for 20yr and it gets bad.
- BlargMcLarg 5y ago
  Men who DGAF aren't the same as "incels". You and GP aren't at odds with one another. And yes, it is somewhat ironic society is making the exact same mistakes it has before: forgetting how destructive a large population of uninterested young men is towards society, without ever having to be violent.
  - meken 5y ago
    Could you say more about this? What historical events are you referring to? I consider myself a disaffected male, and am curious to understand my situation from a historical perspective.
    - Multicomp 5y ago
      I'm not GP and can only guess, and not even a particularly educated guess, but I will try, because I too am curious, and everyone knows the best way to get an answer on the web is to post a confident-sounding answer so someone can 'correct me' therefore giving me the actual information I'm hopeful to receive. I remember (and therefore don't have a source for) users on the web claiming the rise of fascism was enabled partly by strongman leaders engaging all of the disaffected men en masse to serve said strongman's agenda by offering them the things they wanted (respect, status, stability). If my tripping of Godwin's Law is on the right track, then the GP may be referring to Weimar Germany where Hitler was able to take control over a very quick timeframe, starting with disaffected men and eventually spreading the message to the general populace, taking over the country's government sans violence (though there was certainly violence and intimidation near the end of the Weimar government and probably before then that I am unaware of). Or, much more likely, the GP meant something else entirely, and I am Wrong On The Internet!

scythe 5y ago

Much like radical identity politicking Twitter users, the cultural impact and attention-getting of "incels" far exceeds their actual frequency in the population, and is frequently magnified for the purposes of scaremongering. It's not rare for radfems to cry "incel" whenever someone has a complaint about the new libertinism, just as it isn't rare for #metoo opponents to complain about "cancel culture" when someone gets in trouble for committing an actual crime. The vast majority of people have more quotidian difficulties. The fact that liberal tabloids and influencers are eager to refer to rich and famous men as "incels" when they obviously can't be reveals that the word is just an insult in many cases, not a product of a serious analysis of society.

DeWilde 5y ago

Is that really an issue? If you are a stable personality finding a mate isn't that much of an issue. Especially today with high mobility and dating apps if you put your back to it you can find a partner.

sandworm101 5y ago
>> If you are a stable personality finding a mate isn't that much of an issue. So those without mates are possibly not stable? Good luck finding a date if you work in an predominantly male area such as a northern mining town or military base. Good luck funding a mate if you are stuck in a bad job/career. Good luck funding a mate if you are stuck taking care of disabled/elderly family members. A stable personality guarantees nothing.
- DeWilde 5y ago
  > So those without mates are possibly not stable? Of course not. You can be stable and not be interested for a mate. Or as you pointed out, there can be huge friction between a person and their mate because of a job or circumstances. But aren't those cases a minority, a exception to the rule? Even people in the military or working in extreme areas don't do that most of their lives. And this isn't something new really, frontiersmen and sailors faced same issues in the 20th and 19th centuries (and since forever really). I was thinking about a people who are stable and also have a chance and will to find a mate.