5 ms·

There are pauseless GCs for Java, e.g. Azul Systems https://www.azul.com/products/components/pgc/ https://www.azul.com/products/components/pgc/ , seems like a w

There are pauseless GCs for Java, e.g. Azul Systems https://www.azul.com/products/components/pgc/ https://www.azul.com/products/components/pgc/ , seems like a winning approach.

vips7L 4y ago
ZGC also has sub millisecond pauses
panick21_ 4y ago
Yes. And if you read their papers, when they were able to add explicit hardware support they were able to do even better. I really think had vertical companies from the 90s not all died, seriously developing chips for personal computers (phones,laptops) with hardware support for the most important GC features would have been a huge winner. Apple could have done this but they were already bound to Object-C because of Next. Sun had the amazing Self VM in the early 90s already. And they made their own chips as well. But unfortunately they went with Java and instead of making a chip to support GC they tried to make a chip that implemented Java.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  The amazing Self VM is the genesis of Hotspot anyway. They didn't try, they actually did them, and ARM did that as well.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Yeah Sun of course later bought the tech they developed themselves. Totally dumb. What do you mean 'they did them' as far as I know they never did extensions to their main CPU specifically to improve garbage collection.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      The story between Objective-C, Strongtalk, SELF, Tcl and Java is a bit more complicated than that. No they didn't, but the point was about Java specific CPUs, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PicoJava https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PicoJava And then there was https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/digital-ics/article/21771934/hardware-speeds-up-java https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/digital-ics/ar...
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        I know its more complicated, I was not trying to give a full history. As I pointed out in my original comment: > But unfortunately they went with Java and instead of making a chip to support GC they tried to make a chip that implemented Java. I think in the 2000s Azul hit on how to combine high performance JIT, high performance GC with a number GC specific updates for the hardware and the OS.

There are pauseless GCs for Java, e.g. Azul Systems https://www.azul.com/products/components/pgc/ https://www.azul.com/products/components/pgc/ , seems like a winning approach.

vips7L 4y ago

ZGC also has sub millisecond pauses

panick21_ 4y ago

Yes. And if you read their papers, when they were able to add explicit hardware support they were able to do even better. I really think had vertical companies from the 90s not all died, seriously developing chips for personal computers (phones,laptops) with hardware support for the most important GC features would have been a huge winner. Apple could have done this but they were already bound to Object-C because of Next. Sun had the amazing Self VM in the early 90s already. And they made their own chips as well. But unfortunately they went with Java and instead of making a chip to support GC they tried to make a chip that implemented Java.

pjmlp 4y ago
The amazing Self VM is the genesis of Hotspot anyway. They didn't try, they actually did them, and ARM did that as well.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Yeah Sun of course later bought the tech they developed themselves. Totally dumb. What do you mean 'they did them' as far as I know they never did extensions to their main CPU specifically to improve garbage collection.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    The story between Objective-C, Strongtalk, SELF, Tcl and Java is a bit more complicated than that. No they didn't, but the point was about Java specific CPUs, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PicoJava https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PicoJava And then there was https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/digital-ics/article/21771934/hardware-speeds-up-java https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/digital-ics/ar...
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      I know its more complicated, I was not trying to give a full history. As I pointed out in my original comment: > But unfortunately they went with Java and instead of making a chip to support GC they tried to make a chip that implemented Java. I think in the 2000s Azul hit on how to combine high performance JIT, high performance GC with a number GC specific updates for the hardware and the OS.