4 ms·

I don't know what to make of a "virtually zero risk"? Is it high enough that one also could say the vaccinated have a "virtually zero risk" of Myocarditis? It

I don't know what to make of a "virtually zero risk"? Is it high enough that one also could say the vaccinated have a "virtually zero risk" of Myocarditis? It would shed more light to know the delta between unvaccinated and vaccinated for those dead from heart problems vs dead from Covid.

kurupt213 5y ago
there must be a public record of the number of 16-24 y.o. who died from covid in norway
kadoban 5y ago
> Is it high enough that one also could say the vaccinated have a "virtually zero risk" of Myocarditis? Yes. The risk of myocarditis from covid is higher than this, even if there were zero other effects to consider.
- IdEntities 5y ago
  But the vaccines don't prevent Covid infection. If the infection rates from Ontario and the UK were to be believed (before the UK stopped publishing the vaccinated vs unvaccinated breakdowns, that is), being vaccinated might even make you more likely to be infected.
  - moistly 5y ago
    The vaccine was effective against the more dangerous Alpha and Delta variants, where we saw the unvaccinated overwhelming the hospitals. The vaccine is not effective against the less dangerous Omicron variant, and the hospitals are not overwhelmed.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    > being vaccinated might even make you more likely to be infected. That would certainly seem unlikely. Really the only way that's possible is by vaccinated groups having different behavior. Which is somewhat likely, but then you're not really comparing the effects of the vaccine anymore. Everything I've seen has shown the obvious, fewer and less serious cases.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      That would certainly seem unlikely It's actually a proven matter of fact, so it's not really up for debate about whether it's likely or not. It happened already. The few countries that publish infection rates by vaccine status all show the same thing: the vaccinated get infected with COVID at much higher rates than the unvaccinated and this has been getting worse with time. England, Denmark, New Zealand all show this. There may be other countries by now. Most countries simply don't publish this basic statistic at all, which is all you need to know about the integrity of public health. Really the only way that's possible is by vaccinated groups having different behavior No, negative effectiveness has happened before with vaccines and there are biological pathways via which it can happen. In particular the COVID mRNA vaccines are immunosuppressant. This was known by Pfizer before approval but not mentioned anywhere - it came out during their document dumps. OAS/imprinting is another very likely candidate.
    - IdEntities 5y ago
      > That would certainly seem unlikely. Really the only way that's possible is by vaccinated groups having different behavior. No, other possibilities which have been observed with other pathogens are Original Antigenic Sin (i.e. perhaps targeting the spike protein from the now-extinct Wuhan strain gets the immune system "stuck in a rut" with a less optimal response) or Antibody Dependent Enhancement. Not to say that these definitely are occurring in the case of SARS-CoV-2, but even Fauci acknowledged the possibility of disease enhancement before the vaccines were rolled out. A good article on the UK vaccinated/unvaccinated data, which was pulled when it no longer flattered the vaccines: https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/uk-will-hide-vaccinated-cases-and https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/uk-will-hide-vaccinated-ca...
      - renaudg 5y ago
        To anyone else wondering : that "good article" comes from a notorious antivaxxer : https://twitter.com/ichudov https://twitter.com/ichudov
        native_samples 5y ago

kurupt213 5y ago

there must be a public record of the number of 16-24 y.o. who died from covid in norway

kadoban 5y ago

> Is it high enough that one also could say the vaccinated have a "virtually zero risk" of Myocarditis? Yes. The risk of myocarditis from covid is higher than this, even if there were zero other effects to consider.

IdEntities 5y ago
But the vaccines don't prevent Covid infection. If the infection rates from Ontario and the UK were to be believed (before the UK stopped publishing the vaccinated vs unvaccinated breakdowns, that is), being vaccinated might even make you more likely to be infected.
- moistly 5y ago
  The vaccine was effective against the more dangerous Alpha and Delta variants, where we saw the unvaccinated overwhelming the hospitals. The vaccine is not effective against the less dangerous Omicron variant, and the hospitals are not overwhelmed.
- kadoban 5y ago
  > being vaccinated might even make you more likely to be infected. That would certainly seem unlikely. Really the only way that's possible is by vaccinated groups having different behavior. Which is somewhat likely, but then you're not really comparing the effects of the vaccine anymore. Everything I've seen has shown the obvious, fewer and less serious cases.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    That would certainly seem unlikely It's actually a proven matter of fact, so it's not really up for debate about whether it's likely or not. It happened already. The few countries that publish infection rates by vaccine status all show the same thing: the vaccinated get infected with COVID at much higher rates than the unvaccinated and this has been getting worse with time. England, Denmark, New Zealand all show this. There may be other countries by now. Most countries simply don't publish this basic statistic at all, which is all you need to know about the integrity of public health. Really the only way that's possible is by vaccinated groups having different behavior No, negative effectiveness has happened before with vaccines and there are biological pathways via which it can happen. In particular the COVID mRNA vaccines are immunosuppressant. This was known by Pfizer before approval but not mentioned anywhere - it came out during their document dumps. OAS/imprinting is another very likely candidate.
  - IdEntities 5y ago
    > That would certainly seem unlikely. Really the only way that's possible is by vaccinated groups having different behavior. No, other possibilities which have been observed with other pathogens are Original Antigenic Sin (i.e. perhaps targeting the spike protein from the now-extinct Wuhan strain gets the immune system "stuck in a rut" with a less optimal response) or Antibody Dependent Enhancement. Not to say that these definitely are occurring in the case of SARS-CoV-2, but even Fauci acknowledged the possibility of disease enhancement before the vaccines were rolled out. A good article on the UK vaccinated/unvaccinated data, which was pulled when it no longer flattered the vaccines: https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/uk-will-hide-vaccinated-cases-and https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/uk-will-hide-vaccinated-ca...
    - renaudg 5y ago
      To anyone else wondering : that "good article" comes from a notorious antivaxxer : https://twitter.com/ichudov https://twitter.com/ichudov
      - native_samples 5y ago