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It would reduce gun homicide or all homicide? Trick question - there is not even any correlation between gun homicide and firearm ownership rate, let alone all

It would reduce gun homicide or all homicide? Trick question - there is not even any correlation between gun homicide and firearm ownership rate, let alone all homicide: https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-... So even by the myopic logic of taking away rights because the first-order consequences are desirable, it doesn't work out.

camgunz 5y ago
Couple of issues here: - None of the sources in your source do a regression analysis, so there's almost certainly confounding variables. This probably happened because the author was super motivated to make their point, rather than engaging in good faith analysis. - You're the only post narrowing to homicides, everything else in this thread and the OP are about deaths. The post you link makes it seem like broadening to deaths is tricky sophistry, but there are lots of gun suicides, and lower gun ownership rates brings those down. That's not sophistry, that's saving lives. - If you look at one of the article's sources, gunpolicy.org, there seems to be a direct correlation between ownership and homicides [0][1]. Again this isn't a serious analysis, but it's more serious than your link (I actually clicked into some charts), and indicates the opposite conclusion. [0]: https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/proportion_of_households_with_firearms https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/proporti... [1]: https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/number_of_homicides_any_method https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/number_o... EDIT: Sorry your article does try and take on a study that does perform regression, which finds "For each 1 percentage point increase in proportion of household gun ownership [via gun suicide proxy], firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%", but poo-oos it because it finds other correlations, which is an argument against regression analysis, not against gun laws.
- anamax 5y ago
  > there are lots of gun suicides, and lower gun ownership rates brings those down. That's not sophistry, that's saving lives. You mean like in Japan...
  - camgunz 5y ago
    I know you're being dismissive, but in good faith I agree there are other variables.
    - anamax 5y ago
      And then there's the question of whether suicide is necessarily bad. The assisted-suicide folks argue that some suicide is arguably better than the alternatives. 20-30 years ago, Time Magazine did a "here's a picture of everyone in the US who died by gun during {interval}" issue. (I think that the interval was one week.) I remember thinking that the vast majority of the suicides seemed reasonable.
      - camgunz 5y ago
        I'm pro-suicide choice; I definitely agree people should be able to make that choice soberly and in possession of the facts. My understanding of most gun suicides is that they're mostly in emotional low points, I don't have data here but I think I looked it up years ago. I don't think that's something we should accept.
      - homonculus1 5y ago
        It's a crummy reason to ban guns, but suicide is definitely bad!

camgunz 5y ago

Couple of issues here: - None of the sources in your source do a regression analysis, so there's almost certainly confounding variables. This probably happened because the author was super motivated to make their point, rather than engaging in good faith analysis. - You're the only post narrowing to homicides, everything else in this thread and the OP are about deaths. The post you link makes it seem like broadening to deaths is tricky sophistry, but there are lots of gun suicides, and lower gun ownership rates brings those down. That's not sophistry, that's saving lives. - If you look at one of the article's sources, gunpolicy.org, there seems to be a direct correlation between ownership and homicides [0][1]. Again this isn't a serious analysis, but it's more serious than your link (I actually clicked into some charts), and indicates the opposite conclusion. [0]: https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/proportion_of_households_with_firearms https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/proporti... [1]: https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/number_of_homicides_any_method https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/194/number_o... EDIT: Sorry your article does try and take on a study that does perform regression, which finds "For each 1 percentage point increase in proportion of household gun ownership [via gun suicide proxy], firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%", but poo-oos it because it finds other correlations, which is an argument against regression analysis, not against gun laws.

anamax 5y ago
> there are lots of gun suicides, and lower gun ownership rates brings those down. That's not sophistry, that's saving lives. You mean like in Japan...
- camgunz 5y ago
  I know you're being dismissive, but in good faith I agree there are other variables.
  - anamax 5y ago
    And then there's the question of whether suicide is necessarily bad. The assisted-suicide folks argue that some suicide is arguably better than the alternatives. 20-30 years ago, Time Magazine did a "here's a picture of everyone in the US who died by gun during {interval}" issue. (I think that the interval was one week.) I remember thinking that the vast majority of the suicides seemed reasonable.
    - camgunz 5y ago
      I'm pro-suicide choice; I definitely agree people should be able to make that choice soberly and in possession of the facts. My understanding of most gun suicides is that they're mostly in emotional low points, I don't have data here but I think I looked it up years ago. I don't think that's something we should accept.
    - homonculus1 5y ago
      It's a crummy reason to ban guns, but suicide is definitely bad!