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Well that's disturbing. It doesn't bode well for how they are building their self-driving systems. A simple set of ultrasonic reversing sensors would be enough
by noneeeed 4y ago
Well that's disturbing. It doesn't bode well for how they are building their self-driving systems. A simple set of ultrasonic reversing sensors would be enough to prevent this.
- judge2020 4y agoThe part of the jet it hit was in the air, the ultrasonic sensors are the main way it avoids hitting non-car objects in Smart Summon, and they have those all around the car.
- throwanem 4y agoI feel like there must be some way to detect and avoid objects that occlude space the car intends to occupy but that also don't touch the ground inside that footprint.
- byw 4y agoMaybe a lidar would've prevented these types of issues.
- judge2020 4y agoBut how often is a car at risk of not clearing something in a parking lot? I don’t think they should be adding cost (manufacturing complexity, material/part cost) to specifically handle driving around a runway.
- ruined 4y agothere are no rules about what kind of objects can exist in a parking lot. if they can't account for hanging obstructions, which are actually quite frequent everywhere, they probably should err on the side of "less likely to kill people" and just not offer it.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- atchoo 4y agoHitting a partially lowered garage door seems the most likely.
- ipython 4y agoNot a Tesla, just a plain old fuckup on my part - I backed into a fan box mounted about 3’ off the ground in a parking garage. Was too reliant on cameras and the backup radar- didn’t look and boom - nice big crease in my rear panel. So yes this sort of thing is not some sort of crazy edge case only encountered on airport tarmacs.
- Dylan16807 4y agoOther vehicles can be pretty far off the ground sometimes, and while I don't know if summon can avoid those, autopilot sure doesn't.
- throwanem 4y agoI feel like if you need to think about a case like this for its own sake then there may be some more fundamental problem with your approach. I bet it'd work great on Mars, though. Not a whole lot of airplanes there, now or in the foreseeable future.
- midasuni 4y agoMore flying vehicles on Mars than people.
- MattGrommes 4y agoSigns, banners, forklifts, scaffolding. Lots of things that humans would know not to hit, and automated cars should know not to hit.
- Too 4y agoTree branches.
- Ekaros 4y agoProbably not outside spaces, but here such thing as ventilation shafts in parts of underground parking infra are not exactly rare.
- rasz 4y agoJet crushed the upper windshield right in the spot where Tesla hides its monocular camera cluster.
- hosh 4y agoTesla is known to play fast and loose with their driver assist and autonomous vehicle tech and insist on avoiding lidar. Waymo and Cruise are a lot more conservative. As a society, we have not figured out who is liable in cases like this -- the owner or the car company that engineered the AI.
- threeseed 4y agoIt borders on reckless than Tesla isn't using LiDAR or a similar sensor. Relying on images only requires you to perfectly identify every object in the scene in order to infer its bounding box. And that's an issue like we see here where you don't expect to see private jets near a Tesla and so it may not be modelled. With LiDAR, Radar etc. at least they know "something" is there even if they don't know what is.
- SAI_Peregrinus 4y agoYou shouldn't need to identify objects using images, just that the parallax shift indicates something there.
- Commodore63 4y agoIIRC their cameras are videoconference grade webcam FHD sensors. Lots of noise in that signal.
- BurningFrog 4y agoHow much would a LiDAR add to the cost of a Tesla?
- hosh 4y agoI don't know about the cost of the hardware itself, but there is also the cost to license the tech, with different lidar companies attempting grab a piece of the patentable space for lidar. https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/24/22451404/tesla-luminar-lidar-elon-musk-autonomous-vehicles https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/24/22451404/tesla-luminar-li... https://www.patentforecast.com/2021/07/22/lidar-competition-is-revving-up/ https://www.patentforecast.com/2021/07/22/lidar-competition-... https://www.patentforecast.com/2021/09/02/waymo-is-driving-lidars-exclusivity/ https://www.patentforecast.com/2021/09/02/waymo-is-driving-l...
- csa 4y agoTesla says that the owner is supposed to be able to see the car during all parts of the summon procedure precisely to prevent situations like this. Tesla knows that this system is not perfect. Fwiw, the best use of summon is simply getting out of a tight parking spot (e.g., some residential garages). Expecting it to be a valet is ambitious in its current state.
- FireBeyond 4y agoTesla also says that "your car will come to you while you deal with a fussy child". So which is the definitive statement?
- 0xdeadb00f 4y agoThere seems to be a very very clear disconnect between Tesla car's actual capabilities, their marketing claims, and the stuff they say to cover their asses legally.
- csa 4y agoDisclosure: I own a Tesla and I love it. I wasn’t certain until I drove one, and then I knew immediately that it was the car for me (and it has been great). That said, some of the Tesla marketing, like in the example you provided, is very far off the mark. I really wish they wouldn’t do that, since it makes people question the other things marketed about the car that are (more or less) accurate. Fwiw, the summon feature is a nice, minor convenience. I would even say that it is well-implemented for simple use cases. That said, the existing feature does not match the dreams that Tesla is currently selling (imho).
- bXVsbGVy 4y agoThe card could have realized it hit something based on the engine load. I find disturbing how the car just keep going... This is not a sensor issue.
- ricardobeat 4y agoThe owner controls it by holding the button. Like a gas pedal.
- bXVsbGVy 4y agoYour comparison doesn't hold. Tesla stops when it sense a imminent collision even if you have your foot on the pedal. But, based on the incident, it seems to rely on the cameras and radars. Not on engine performance data.
- ricardobeat 4y agoSafety mechanisms don’t remove liability. If a car doesn’t stop of it’s own volition to avoid a crash while the driver continues accelerating (and most cars don’t), the responsibility is still with the driver.
- bXVsbGVy 4y agoFair.