4 ms·

>people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc. Isn't this illegal?

throwaway0wha8h 4y ago
Lot of things are illegal but still happen everyday. The violation has to be known to lawmakers and they have to have the will and resources to enforce the penalty. That's not the case here.
Manuel_D 4y ago
Who is going to speak up? I've worked in these environments before and it's career suicide to object to DEI discrimination.
- forum_ghost 4y ago
  Maybe two-party recording laws in California needs to be removed.
  - recursive 4y ago
    Maybe, but they haven't been. That's what matters.
    - nullc 4y ago
      Doesn't apply if the parties have notice of the recording. Offer to take notes for the meetings and tell people you're recording for the notes. People making openly racist/sexist statements usually won't refrain when a mic is on-- they do it because they've convinced themselves that what they're doing is OKAY. Failing that, an illicitly obtained recording can still be used in court in California if its used to disprove conflicting testimony. So you sue over the discrimination, when they lie and claim they didn't say the statements in question, the recording can be introduced. You'd still be vulnerable to the $2500 fine and imprisonment, but I don't know how likely it is that a prosecutor would actually go after someone for making a recording which exposed a crime. Personally I'd be inclined to get a recording and then decide what to do about it later, since if due care is taken the recording would be unlikely to be known to anyone but you. Obviously you should get legal advice before trying something like that.
      - forum_ghost 4y ago
        This is a very optimistic statement, and I hope you are right, but I'd imagine the probability of a candidate who announced he'll record the interview to get hired will be approximately zero. Personally, I'd expect the interview cut very short, if not immediately e.g. citing an existing security policy or something. I've seen many places with "no recording for our client's privacy" on the doors.
koheripbal 4y ago
In many states, discrimination laws only apply to "protected classes" , which is strictly defined as specific lists of races/religions/lgbt.. If you are white male, you are often not protected by these laws.
- autarch 4y ago
  That's not what a protected class is. A protected class is something like "gender", "race", or "religion". It's not "women", "black people", or "Jews". Discriminating based on gender or race, regardless of the gender or race in question, is illegal in most (probably all) states in the US. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group for a lot more details.
- moeris 4y ago
  Incorrect. The protections against employment discrimination by protected category are at the federal level, and are not tied to any specific race/religion/etc. > Under the laws enforced by EEOC, it is illegal to discriminate against someone (applicant or employee) because of that person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices#:~:text=Under%20the%20laws%20enforced%20by,)%2C%20disability%20or%20genetic%20information https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices....
- pie_flavor 4y ago
  The relevant piece of legislation is not state-by-state but the Civil Rights Act of 1965. It defines protected classes, and it defines them as attributes that you cannot discriminate along, not groups; whites and blacks are (de jure, not necessarily de facto) equally protected by race's status as a protected class.
- Anechoic 4y ago
  In many states,[...] which is strictly defined as specific lists of races Can you provide a specific example of a state where a protected class is limited to a specific "race" (as opposed to "race" in general)? There are states where minorities have a presumption of being discriminated against, but that's not the same thing.
thisismyusrname 4y ago
Yes
commandlinefan 4y ago
> Isn't this illegal? Yes, but it's not actually enforced or prosecuted in these cases.

throwaway0wha8h 4y ago

Lot of things are illegal but still happen everyday. The violation has to be known to lawmakers and they have to have the will and resources to enforce the penalty. That's not the case here.

Manuel_D 4y ago

Who is going to speak up? I've worked in these environments before and it's career suicide to object to DEI discrimination.

forum_ghost 4y ago
Maybe two-party recording laws in California needs to be removed.
- recursive 4y ago
  Maybe, but they haven't been. That's what matters.
  - nullc 4y ago
    Doesn't apply if the parties have notice of the recording. Offer to take notes for the meetings and tell people you're recording for the notes. People making openly racist/sexist statements usually won't refrain when a mic is on-- they do it because they've convinced themselves that what they're doing is OKAY. Failing that, an illicitly obtained recording can still be used in court in California if its used to disprove conflicting testimony. So you sue over the discrimination, when they lie and claim they didn't say the statements in question, the recording can be introduced. You'd still be vulnerable to the $2500 fine and imprisonment, but I don't know how likely it is that a prosecutor would actually go after someone for making a recording which exposed a crime. Personally I'd be inclined to get a recording and then decide what to do about it later, since if due care is taken the recording would be unlikely to be known to anyone but you. Obviously you should get legal advice before trying something like that.
    - forum_ghost 4y ago
      This is a very optimistic statement, and I hope you are right, but I'd imagine the probability of a candidate who announced he'll record the interview to get hired will be approximately zero. Personally, I'd expect the interview cut very short, if not immediately e.g. citing an existing security policy or something. I've seen many places with "no recording for our client's privacy" on the doors.

koheripbal 4y ago

In many states, discrimination laws only apply to "protected classes" , which is strictly defined as specific lists of races/religions/lgbt.. If you are white male, you are often not protected by these laws.

autarch 4y ago
That's not what a protected class is. A protected class is something like "gender", "race", or "religion". It's not "women", "black people", or "Jews". Discriminating based on gender or race, regardless of the gender or race in question, is illegal in most (probably all) states in the US. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group for a lot more details.
moeris 4y ago
Incorrect. The protections against employment discrimination by protected category are at the federal level, and are not tied to any specific race/religion/etc. > Under the laws enforced by EEOC, it is illegal to discriminate against someone (applicant or employee) because of that person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices#:~:text=Under%20the%20laws%20enforced%20by,)%2C%20disability%20or%20genetic%20information https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices....
pie_flavor 4y ago
The relevant piece of legislation is not state-by-state but the Civil Rights Act of 1965. It defines protected classes, and it defines them as attributes that you cannot discriminate along, not groups; whites and blacks are (de jure, not necessarily de facto) equally protected by race's status as a protected class.
Anechoic 4y ago
In many states,[...] which is strictly defined as specific lists of races Can you provide a specific example of a state where a protected class is limited to a specific "race" (as opposed to "race" in general)? There are states where minorities have a presumption of being discriminated against, but that's not the same thing.

thisismyusrname 4y ago

Yes

commandlinefan 4y ago

> Isn't this illegal? Yes, but it's not actually enforced or prosecuted in these cases.