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My dad's favourite hobby was tinkering on cars. I don't honestly see much difference between me playing video games and tinkering on my PC than him driving and

My dad's favourite hobby was tinkering on cars. I don't honestly see much difference between me playing video games and tinkering on my PC than him driving and getting his hands greasy. My grandfather's was walking around in the woods hunting or sitting in a boat fishing. Why are those mature and virtuous, while my love of games infantilizing? Are video games innately childish due to their medium? Is a comic book movie actually that much more childish than Die Hard or James Bond?

jdsully 5y ago
I don’t know about virtuous but the clear difference is fishing and fixing cars produces useful byproducts: food & working transportation. Playing with the PC may do that but usually video games do not unless you are making them yourself.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  The hunting and fishing byproduct was only the pretense, it was to spend an afternoon in the woods or on the lake. And the cars weren't exactly practical, they were impractical muscle cars that broke down often and were a mess of upkeep. If we're looking at useful byproducts that tells me factory working is the best past time one can have.
- jenny91 5y ago
  I don't think this is a compelling argument. It's an extremely inefficient way of producing those "useful byproducts". A person fixing and tuning the same old car for years?
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Fishing is mostly an excuse to sit on a boat and drink beer all day (a high quality activity I fully support in moderation) Car enthusiasts are mostly about making something look cool and have certain stats, it’s about fun not utility.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Cars are about fun but you can learn a vast amount of practical engineering from the process that is applicable in Broad aspects of life. I won't tell others how to live their lives, but I think this has more value than how to optimally crush candies for example
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  Saying that fixing cars or fishing as a hobby "produce useful byproducts" is like saying playing video games and PC tinkering produces useful byproducts of programmers and content creators.
- em-bee 5y ago
  the useful byproduct of my interest in computers is that i understand what my kids are doing with the technology and what the technology is doing to them.
- gnufied 5y ago
  Most people whom I know - do fishing as a hobby in local lake or something similar - actually return the fish to the Pond/Lake after catching it. There is no food to be had from these activities.I am not saying that is what parent's grandad did but just a data point.
- chucksta 5y ago
  I can't tell you how many times historical knowledge from age of empires has come in handy. And I know my way around parts of DC due to fallout. All 4 examples main benefit is knowledge to be used later.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  If the car isn't your daily driver, then working on it is superfluous. People who fish with a pole rarely catch more than the investment made into their gear and bait.
xattt 5y ago
My assumption is virtuosity is explained by the associated crowds of said activities. Playing video games is occasionally associated with the NEET crowd, likely because of the low barrier to entry in terms of experience. Exploring nature and working on mechanical things requires some prior knowledge, experience and/or space to get started.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  It would seem in this case the bad stereotypes are doing the infantilizing. The activities of the past had the same low barrier to entry as the current ones - my dad started working on cars in high school, and my grandfather started hunting and fishing as a child and never graduated high school.
  - xattt 5y ago
    Regulatory requirements around insurance for cars, for example, are likely to be higher and more expensive now than they were decades ago. Therefore, someone young is unlikely to go a used car lot and pick one up and tinker. Likewise, access to uncontaminated nature in large population centres is harder than it was when rural populations outnumbered the people living in urban environments. Bikes, on the other hand, are great for tinkering and also small enough to be compatible with modern living. These, however, might not be accessible for someone with a low level of fitness and willpower to attain that fitness.
    - ragingrobot 5y ago
      Technology in late model cars makes tinkering more difficult as well. Back when our parents were tinkering, you didn't have to reprogram a computer when changing heads or a cam. All you needed was hand tools, for the most part. My toys are an '88 and a '90. Both would require creating a new program for major changes- requiring EEPROM chips and a programmer. Newer cars are simpler, but not as simple as needing just a screwdriver to tune a carb. Quite honestly it does take some of the fun out of it.
munificent 5y ago
This is a great question. I'm sure others will disagree but I believe playing video games for hours is more infantilizing than hunting, fishing, or tinkering on cars. The former is content designed by humans (generally working under the aegis of giant corporations) whose goal is to completely capture and dominate your attention to the exclusion of other things. While videogames certainly can be and often are art that tells interesting stories about the human condition, they also often function psychologically much more like junk food and drugs. They give you just enough serotonin hit to get you to keep playing but rarely enough to leave you truly sated. Many games don't want to satisfy because then you'll stop consuming the content. Hunting and fishing require you to be in nature which has been proven in study after study to be profoundly valuable psychologically and emotionally. They are both boring in a deeply useful way that gives you time to reflect and process your own thoughts. Instead of doom scrolling social media which constantly fills your brain with new information, stressors, and problems that you never have time to sift through, hunting and fishing give your brain the idle time it needs to finally start defragging its memory. Tinkering on cars forces you to solve difficult challenges. Unlike playing videogames where the stakes are by design relatively low—all you can lose is time—working on a car forces you to confront difficulty and failure where that matters. You can break parts that are expensive to replace. You can fail to find a problem and be left with a car that won't run. That's very helpful for training resilience, problem-solving and equanimity. All three of these engage our entire bodies, senses, and hands in an integrated, much deeper way than a controller and rectangle of pixels does. The smell of oil or seaweed. The flash of a bobber. The way you feel the pull of the fish in your arms or the recoil of the rifle in your shoulders. This is something we all know intuitively and it's the constant onslaught of capitalism and the ease of consuming media at home that makes us forget. Videogames can certainly have moments of meaningful joy. But ask yourself this: How often after sinking an hour into a game do you find yourself thinking, "Wow, that really felt like living!" Now how often do you feel that when you go fishing, or hike, or cook a meal for a friend? For me, 80% of the time I spend playing videogames or watching dumb social media leaves me with the same lingering regret I feel when I eat a bag of chips instead of preparing an actually nutritious meal.
- the_lonely_road 5y ago
  This is not something we all know intuitively. This is a conclusion you have come to and decided is THE truth instead of just YOUR truth. History is full of people like you and all we can do is hope that they never gain any power over the rest of our lives.
jimbokun 5y ago
A lot of research shows time spent outdoors protects against depression and other mental illness.
- yamazakiwi 5y ago
  Playing videos games directly improves my depression.

jdsully 5y ago

I don’t know about virtuous but the clear difference is fishing and fixing cars produces useful byproducts: food & working transportation. Playing with the PC may do that but usually video games do not unless you are making them yourself.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
The hunting and fishing byproduct was only the pretense, it was to spend an afternoon in the woods or on the lake. And the cars weren't exactly practical, they were impractical muscle cars that broke down often and were a mess of upkeep. If we're looking at useful byproducts that tells me factory working is the best past time one can have.
jenny91 5y ago
I don't think this is a compelling argument. It's an extremely inefficient way of producing those "useful byproducts". A person fixing and tuning the same old car for years?
colechristensen 5y ago
Fishing is mostly an excuse to sit on a boat and drink beer all day (a high quality activity I fully support in moderation) Car enthusiasts are mostly about making something look cool and have certain stats, it’s about fun not utility.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Cars are about fun but you can learn a vast amount of practical engineering from the process that is applicable in Broad aspects of life. I won't tell others how to live their lives, but I think this has more value than how to optimally crush candies for example
xboxnolifes 5y ago
Saying that fixing cars or fishing as a hobby "produce useful byproducts" is like saying playing video games and PC tinkering produces useful byproducts of programmers and content creators.
em-bee 5y ago
the useful byproduct of my interest in computers is that i understand what my kids are doing with the technology and what the technology is doing to them.
gnufied 5y ago
Most people whom I know - do fishing as a hobby in local lake or something similar - actually return the fish to the Pond/Lake after catching it. There is no food to be had from these activities.I am not saying that is what parent's grandad did but just a data point.
chucksta 5y ago
I can't tell you how many times historical knowledge from age of empires has come in handy. And I know my way around parts of DC due to fallout. All 4 examples main benefit is knowledge to be used later.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
If the car isn't your daily driver, then working on it is superfluous. People who fish with a pole rarely catch more than the investment made into their gear and bait.

xattt 5y ago

My assumption is virtuosity is explained by the associated crowds of said activities. Playing video games is occasionally associated with the NEET crowd, likely because of the low barrier to entry in terms of experience. Exploring nature and working on mechanical things requires some prior knowledge, experience and/or space to get started.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
It would seem in this case the bad stereotypes are doing the infantilizing. The activities of the past had the same low barrier to entry as the current ones - my dad started working on cars in high school, and my grandfather started hunting and fishing as a child and never graduated high school.
- xattt 5y ago
  Regulatory requirements around insurance for cars, for example, are likely to be higher and more expensive now than they were decades ago. Therefore, someone young is unlikely to go a used car lot and pick one up and tinker. Likewise, access to uncontaminated nature in large population centres is harder than it was when rural populations outnumbered the people living in urban environments. Bikes, on the other hand, are great for tinkering and also small enough to be compatible with modern living. These, however, might not be accessible for someone with a low level of fitness and willpower to attain that fitness.
  - ragingrobot 5y ago
    Technology in late model cars makes tinkering more difficult as well. Back when our parents were tinkering, you didn't have to reprogram a computer when changing heads or a cam. All you needed was hand tools, for the most part. My toys are an '88 and a '90. Both would require creating a new program for major changes- requiring EEPROM chips and a programmer. Newer cars are simpler, but not as simple as needing just a screwdriver to tune a carb. Quite honestly it does take some of the fun out of it.

munificent 5y ago

This is a great question. I'm sure others will disagree but I believe playing video games for hours is more infantilizing than hunting, fishing, or tinkering on cars. The former is content designed by humans (generally working under the aegis of giant corporations) whose goal is to completely capture and dominate your attention to the exclusion of other things. While videogames certainly can be and often are art that tells interesting stories about the human condition, they also often function psychologically much more like junk food and drugs. They give you just enough serotonin hit to get you to keep playing but rarely enough to leave you truly sated. Many games don't want to satisfy because then you'll stop consuming the content. Hunting and fishing require you to be in nature which has been proven in study after study to be profoundly valuable psychologically and emotionally. They are both boring in a deeply useful way that gives you time to reflect and process your own thoughts. Instead of doom scrolling social media which constantly fills your brain with new information, stressors, and problems that you never have time to sift through, hunting and fishing give your brain the idle time it needs to finally start defragging its memory. Tinkering on cars forces you to solve difficult challenges. Unlike playing videogames where the stakes are by design relatively low—all you can lose is time—working on a car forces you to confront difficulty and failure where that matters. You can break parts that are expensive to replace. You can fail to find a problem and be left with a car that won't run. That's very helpful for training resilience, problem-solving and equanimity. All three of these engage our entire bodies, senses, and hands in an integrated, much deeper way than a controller and rectangle of pixels does. The smell of oil or seaweed. The flash of a bobber. The way you feel the pull of the fish in your arms or the recoil of the rifle in your shoulders. This is something we all know intuitively and it's the constant onslaught of capitalism and the ease of consuming media at home that makes us forget. Videogames can certainly have moments of meaningful joy. But ask yourself this: How often after sinking an hour into a game do you find yourself thinking, "Wow, that really felt like living!" Now how often do you feel that when you go fishing, or hike, or cook a meal for a friend? For me, 80% of the time I spend playing videogames or watching dumb social media leaves me with the same lingering regret I feel when I eat a bag of chips instead of preparing an actually nutritious meal.

the_lonely_road 5y ago
This is not something we all know intuitively. This is a conclusion you have come to and decided is THE truth instead of just YOUR truth. History is full of people like you and all we can do is hope that they never gain any power over the rest of our lives.

jimbokun 5y ago

A lot of research shows time spent outdoors protects against depression and other mental illness.

yamazakiwi 5y ago
Playing videos games directly improves my depression.