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Every Russian should be ashamed, what their leader is doing right now. And in case they support it should reflect on their ethics.
by myspy 4y ago
Every Russian should be ashamed, what their leader is doing right now. And in case they support it should reflect on their ethics.
- tosser0001 4y agoThere is a Twitter satire account that said something I thought was subtly profound: If you ever wondered what you would have done to stop Hitler, you're doing it now.
- goodoldneon 4y agoThere's a massive difference in magnitude between Putin and Hitler, but point taken
- nugget 4y agoYou're comparing Putin as of April 22nd, 2022 to Hitler at the end of his life. We have no idea what Putin's next steps are.
- goodoldneon 4y agoThe quote said "Hitler" and not "Hitler when he invaded Poland but before he killed 10+ million innocent civilians"
- Aeolun 4y agoIs there? It’s not like we’re in any position to find out until the armies roll into Russia to find the destruction camps. Or the war settles down and Ukraine can do a full inventory and find tens of thousands of people missing or dead. If Russia has really been cremating remains in Mariupol, people may remain missing forever.
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- EB-Barrington 4y agoThere is basically no difference between the two people. Hello from Kyiv.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoRight now it's only scale and I agree completely with you. Putin no doubt would be doing same atrocities on the same scale if given the chance.
- sofixa 4y agoIs there? Denying people's right to exist, war on bullshit excuses ( they aren't a real country), brutal methods up to and including genocide ( like kidnapping and resettling children). They're not that far off.
- goodoldneon 4y agoDon't get me wrong, Putin is a horrible horrible person. But there's a big difference between starting a war that resulted in 80+ million deaths (including the orchestration of ~10 million civilian deaths in camps) and Putin. Russia is committing war crimes and should be held accountable, but it's disingenuous to conflate Putin and the (arguably) worst person in human history
- type0 4y ago> Russia is committing war crimes and should be held accountable, but it's disingenuous to conflate Putin and the (arguably) worst person in human history If we were to take his nuclear threats to Ukraine seriously, he has all the potential to be one.
- gfodor 4y agoNot really. The existence of nuclear weapons makes the game theory of WWII largely irrelevant. People who have continually compared the situation to Hitler’s invasion of Poland are in large part Americans who are unable to draw on other historical events for better comparisons, and are seeking to virtue signal.
- watwut 4y agoThat saying does not require the two leaders to be exactly the same.
- gfodor 4y agoDid someone say it did? It wasn’t me.
- rich_sasha 4y agoPeople didn’t oppose Hitler for fear of great amount of destruction and deaths happening to them, as opposed to someone else. It’s not that different.
- gfodor 4y agoIt’s only similar if you do not think global annihilation being a meaningful risk factor blows up all your priors comparatively. I do.
- rich_sasha 4y agoUp to a point. In that scenario, "I have nukes" becomes a joker you can pull out to achieve anything less bad than a global nuclear war. Peel off a bit of a neighbour? OK, less bad than nuclear war. What about a "minor" NATO country? What about, "pay me money or else"? And so on. So either you accept that (no thank you from me) or you accept that sometimes you must set limits, even if the other side threatens nuclear war. In that respect it's the same, just different scale. Allies could have said "no" to Hitler earlier, at risk of a devastating war, but chose to say "ah, go ahead" for fear of it. And got that war served up to them anyway. The irony is that WWII could possibly be over in a few weeks, if Hitler's ambitions were stemmed earlier. In September 1939, it is unlikely he could fight on two fronts, and against the British and the French - the actual superpowers of the day.
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- CreateAccntAgn 4y agoIs that aimed at Germany/Europe for bankrolling Russia via energy purchases or the common man?
- twoxproblematic 4y ago[dead]
- gentleman11 4y ago> Every Russian should be ashamed Yes, those Russians in jail right now for protesting against putin should be ashamed /s Edit: the statement is about “should be,” but the replies talk about whether they do/did feel ashamed. But *should* they? Those people who ended up in jail were acting heroically by jeopardizing their careers and freedom. I think those specific Russians deserve to feel good about themselves
- fumblebee 4y agoIt's not that simple. The limit of shame is entwined with the information we consume. If you were presented the War through the lens of "denazification", you might think the war was ethically justifiable.
- sofixa 4y agoOne has to be pretty stupid to believe such a bullshit excuse and that murdering civilians would "free" them from evil Nazis.
- fumblebee 4y agoIf you - as a hypothetical person living in Russia - literally aren't aware of the atrocities happening on the ground (because of the information you're able to consume) then it seems pretty unfair to call them stupid.
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- tut-urut-utut 4y agoI agree with you wholeheartedly, but I don’t understand why limit it only to Russians. At this same moment USA, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are involved directly in illegal aggression against multiple sovereign states, fully supported by many other NATO members. They were responsible for much more death yearly than Russia in this war, yet nobody seems to care. Is it because USA do it to spread democracy? Then what about Turkey? They used word for word exactly the same justification to invade Kurds in Syria. Where’s the outrage about other wars. Either condemn all wars, or stop pretending you care about people affected by wars.
- jhgb 4y agoYou will not convince anyone sensible that the morals and discipline of US troops and officers are anywhere close to the morals and discipline (or the lack thereof) of their Russian counterparts with this whataboutism.
- tut-urut-utut 4y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing Nice example of moral and discipline of US troops. Just Google if you need more. Murderers are murderers, regardless if they wear Russian, US or Taliban uniform.
- jhgb 4y agoIf this is the worst example you can find for the US, then considering the recorded conversations of Russian officers ordering the troops to kill all civilians in various places and such, I guess Russia very easily "wins" this.
- tut-urut-utut 4y agoNo, some of the worst examples would include extermination of million of native Americans, the biggest genocide in human history. This I’d just a random example. But yeah, Russian army killing anyone suddenly makes US army winning humanitarian contest.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoWhat's happening is large scale conventional warfare. Nothing special or new, it's just the same old horror so to speak. What's different is that it is widely publicised pretty much live and that it hasn't happened in some time (although in the Syrian civil war Aleppo was similarly flattened). The invasion of Iraq is a bit different in that the gap between Iraqi and US capabilities was so great that the US did not really need to go all the way on that occasion (and of course they didn't want to show you, anyway).
- watwut 4y agoLarge scale conventional warfare does not necessary involves shooting all men over 18 in an area or systematic rapes the way Russia army does. Not ever one of those wars turn into genocide.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoWe're commenting on the destruction in Mariupol so that's the usual strawman.
- jhgb 4y agoAre you saying that these things are somehow not happening in Mariupol? We already know that Mariupol has been a subject of population abductions at the very least.
- caoilte 4y agoWe don't even know that. All we know is that a large number of people in Mariupol were evacuated to Russia instead of through the frontlines to Ukraine. I can think of a lot of quite reasonable explanations for that.
- type0 4y agoAll we know is that a large number of people in Mariupol were deported to Russia
- sto_hristo 4y agoBut if you just looked the Putin in the eye. You'd found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. You would have had a very good dialogue. You'd be able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country. Putin didn't sprung up from nothing. He was nurtured and cared for by all western leaders. He's that disease you did nothing for for so long. And now you're complaining? That is like a cop blaming the victim for what a criminal did to them.
- lostmsu 4y agoHuh? The man lies on every possible occasion.
- ceejayoz 4y agoThey're quoting George W. Bush. “I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy,” Bush said in remarks he later regretted. “. . . I was able to get a sense of his soul.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bush-saw-putins-soul-obama-wants-to-appeal-to-his-brain/2015/12/01/264f0c7c-984b-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bush-saw-put...
- lostmsu 4y agoTurns out Bush sucked in assessing a person.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoPutin is entirely self made. He's the one attacking innocent countries and ordering the murder, rape, and torture of Ukrainians. He's a real POS. The western leaders didn't do that, his hate and ego are completely self made.
- tim333 4y agoThere seems a bit of opposition going on in Russia now in terms of "Fire at a weapons research facility in Tver was followed hours later by reports of a blaze at key chemical plant in Kineshma" and "Reports of water gates having been blown causing severe flooding near Krasnodar Russia." I guess if there are 15 year jail terms for peaceful opposition then blowing stuff up gets you more bang for the buck.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoLast poll ~80% supported Putin's unprovoked attack on Ukraine. That speaks volumes.
- coward-guy 4y agoDon't trust these polls. If people do not support the war, then they are afraid to answer because of the new criminal law adopted by the government. That polls sound for me like an Internet survey showed that 100% use the Internet.