4 ms·

Just to be clear, are you under the impression that leveling residential areas is how you win a war?

newaccount2021 4y ago
newsclues 4y ago
It is one strategy to victory yes. There is thousands of years of military history from all sides employing the same things. War sucks.
ceejayoz 4y ago
That was eventually the successful Russian strategy in Chechnya. (I don't think it'll work as well here. 40x the population, Western support, better Ukrainian equipment.)
- dekhn 4y ago
  what eventually worked in chechnya is that they found a local warlord who was willing to work with the russians, not fight against them.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    The flattening of Grozny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999%E2%80%932000) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999%E2%80%9...) caused the fall of the separatist government and their exile. That the Russians found a puppet to install afterwards isn't surprising.
caoilte 4y ago
It's the only way to beat an enemy entrenched in a city. See Fallujah or Raqqa for similar battles.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- watwut 4y ago
  No, "we have no choice because enemy soldiers exists" is an excuse when you want to level the city.
  - caoilte 4y ago
    Why would Russia/DNR voluntarily level a city they want to incorporate into their breakaway republic? That's just falling into the "they're all orcs" propaganda trap. The use of artillery etc ramped up as the Russians realized they wouldn't take the city any other way, but if the Ukranian army / Azov had vacated Russia would have happily taken the city without a shot fired. Russia invading is already a war crime, but we don't need to pretend that they're behaving any differently to the way we did in Iraq.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > Why would Russia/DNR voluntarily level a city they want to incorporate into their breakaway republic? DNR, isn't the main or controlling actor doing it, and “incorporate into a breakaway republic” isn’t Russia’s primary, much less sole, goal with their operation. > Russia invading is already a war crime Technically, no, it's a crime against peace, a separate category of breach of international law.
    - watwut 4y ago
      In fact, they had an option of not leveling it. They also have option to not bomb hospitals too and they don't take those options. "Why" is speculation. Possibly because strategic impossible of city is in land and not in existing citizens who don't welcomed them anyway. Possibly to create pressure on Ukraine President. Possibly because this is what Russian army do routinely and don't need super concrete reason to do - this is not first time they leveled the city. They did not needed to do so in Syria nor in Chechnia. Genocides don't necessary happen because aggressor had no choice. Starting with assumption that they had no choice is judt yet another fallacy.

newaccount2021 4y ago

It is one strategy to victory yes. There is thousands of years of military history from all sides employing the same things. War sucks.

ceejayoz 4y ago

That was eventually the successful Russian strategy in Chechnya. (I don't think it'll work as well here. 40x the population, Western support, better Ukrainian equipment.)

dekhn 4y ago
what eventually worked in chechnya is that they found a local warlord who was willing to work with the russians, not fight against them.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  The flattening of Grozny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999%E2%80%932000) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999%E2%80%9...) caused the fall of the separatist government and their exile. That the Russians found a puppet to install afterwards isn't surprising.

caoilte 4y ago

It's the only way to beat an enemy entrenched in a city. See Fallujah or Raqqa for similar battles.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
watwut 4y ago
No, "we have no choice because enemy soldiers exists" is an excuse when you want to level the city.
- caoilte 4y ago
  Why would Russia/DNR voluntarily level a city they want to incorporate into their breakaway republic? That's just falling into the "they're all orcs" propaganda trap. The use of artillery etc ramped up as the Russians realized they wouldn't take the city any other way, but if the Ukranian army / Azov had vacated Russia would have happily taken the city without a shot fired. Russia invading is already a war crime, but we don't need to pretend that they're behaving any differently to the way we did in Iraq.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Why would Russia/DNR voluntarily level a city they want to incorporate into their breakaway republic? DNR, isn't the main or controlling actor doing it, and “incorporate into a breakaway republic” isn’t Russia’s primary, much less sole, goal with their operation. > Russia invading is already a war crime Technically, no, it's a crime against peace, a separate category of breach of international law.
  - watwut 4y ago
    In fact, they had an option of not leveling it. They also have option to not bomb hospitals too and they don't take those options. "Why" is speculation. Possibly because strategic impossible of city is in land and not in existing citizens who don't welcomed them anyway. Possibly to create pressure on Ukraine President. Possibly because this is what Russian army do routinely and don't need super concrete reason to do - this is not first time they leveled the city. They did not needed to do so in Syria nor in Chechnia. Genocides don't necessary happen because aggressor had no choice. Starting with assumption that they had no choice is judt yet another fallacy.