10 ms·

edit adding the review link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdP59hhiDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdP59hhiDg This thing, I'll never forget John Grub

*edit adding the review link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdP59hhiDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdP59hhiDg * This thing, I'll never forget John Gruber saying "The story is about Playdate, the most amazing and exciting product announcement, for me, since the original iPhone." I don't know if I could roll my eyes harder without getting a headache. Is this thing some sort of techie inside joke? Then reviewers get their hands on them. Metal Jesus on YouTube recently got to test one and it confirmed everything I needed to know. It's expensive. The screen isn't backlit so you've got OG gameboy issues. And it's a complete chore to hold. He was complaining about hand cramps after a little bit of play time. And the screen resolution is so low that some of the gameplay is hindered. But it has a hand crank: https://i.imgur.com/wBmESKj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wBmESKj.jpg

wlesieutre 4y ago
You need light to see it yes, but that screen is nowhere near OG gameboy issues
- anyfoo 4y ago
  Yeah. Not sure if the parent commenter had an original Gameboy as a kid, because if they did they wouldn't throw that comparison around so inflationarily...
  - post_break 4y ago
    I had an original gameboy. So it's not exactly the same type of torture, but in 2022 not having backlighting is kind of a joke.
    - wlesieutre 4y ago
      It's a weird niche device with weird niche games, I'm not planning to buy one but I'm happy to see people doing something interesting instead of all chasing the same mass market. There's a certain retro appeal to the "shades of gray like a gameboy" screen without the part where it's impossible to see in 90% of lighting conditions.
      - frosted-flakes 4y ago
        It's not even shades of grey, it's black and white only (on or off). This means it's very high contrast and the white pixels are very reflective.
    - anyfoo 4y ago
      They tout the system as having "a very special black and white screen – not backlit, but super reflective – that looks way more amazing than you're probably imagining". If it is the kind of display I am imagining (which I think is different from the one they claim I probably am), then that display will probably look much better than an equivalent backlit displays. It's just not usable in low lighting conditions, which is a tradeoff I can imagine them accepting, and customers as well. Though unlike an original Gameboy, and more like a common book, a crappy bedside lamp will likely suffice.
- rileyphone 4y ago
  The screen isn’t a normal LCD but a Sharp Memory device - https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694
  - AlanYx 4y ago
    Is that the same technology as RLCD, or is it a different type of display?
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      Pretty much. Memory LCD adds a bit of memory to each pixel so it doesn't need to refresh if it hasn't changed. Otherwise the same.
      - AlanYx 4y ago
        Thanks! I found a whitepaper describing the tech: https://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/resources/Polarizer-free_Reflective_LCD_White_Paper.pdf https://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/resources/Polarizer-free_Refl... In terms of display properties it's in a pretty sweet spot between eink (electrophoretic displays) and conventional RLCD. Slightly lower contrast than conventional RLCD but much better reflectance (roughly on par with eink).
jrm4 4y ago
I like the comparison to the iPhone, because for all it's done, the iPhone has effectively likely annihilated a generation worth of fun gadgetry. Nearly literally every available cell phone is an iPhone clone.
- haswell 4y ago
  > the iPhone has effectively likely annihilated a generation worth of fun gadgetry This just doesn’t ring true. It’s a golden age of fun gadgetry. It’s easier than ever before to combine off the shelf components (e.g. ESP8266) with a myriad of sensors and other devices. Can you expand on what you mean and what you’re referring yo? You seem to be implying that the Playdate will annihilate a generation of gaming gadgetry? I also don’t understand this when there’s a rich ecosystem of gadgetry all focused on various forms of gaming. Granted, most of those are focused on emulation, but the hardware is capable of more.
  - xg15 4y ago
    Yes, it's easier than ever, but you'll also have fewer reasons than ever to actually do it, as most usecases for gadgets are already perfectly served by an off-the-shelf smartphone.
    - jrm4 4y ago
      "Perfectly?" Oh, HELL no. On a smaller level, quality suffers when you only have a brick and a touchscreen, too many activities are improved by better tactile controls. Also, quite a bit of those experiences are clunky due to intrusive software, notifications, etc. E.g. Personally I absolutely hate trying to listen to music on a cellphone, I don't want interruptions and I want to easily adjust song/volume without looking. Perhaps the biggest point: You can do NOTHING on a cellphone without being surveilled while doing it.
      - frosted-flakes 4y ago
        Regarding adjusting song/volume without looking, you can obviously adjust the volume with the volume buttons, but if you have an Android you can also change tracks with a long-press of the volume buttons, even when the screen is locked. I use a sideloaded app that uses an ADB-only permission that makes this possible (see link). I'm not sure why this isn't a native feature. https://github.com/Incineroar/skipTrackLongPressVolume https://github.com/Incineroar/skipTrackLongPressVolume
tshaddox 4y ago
This is the John Gruber article you're talking about (from May 2019): https://daringfireball.net/2019/05/playdate https://daringfireball.net/2019/05/playdate I just read the article expecting (based on your tone) to see Gruber making grand predictions about the Playdate being a massive success or having a massive impact. But no, it's very clear in the article that he's just personally excited about it. He doesn't make any grandiose predictions or even really attempt to persuade other people that they should be similarly excited about it. Clearly he just thinks it's neat for a small software company to develop their own affordable consumer electronics hardware. He's even explicit about thinking the product will likely be playing in a relatively small market: "Panic is almost cheating in a way because they’re tiny. The Playdate platform isn’t competing with the state of the art." I don't see any reason to roll your eyes about this one.
haswell 4y ago
The thing that I think some folks miss about the Playdate is that it’s not just a device meant to play a catalog of high budget polished games. It’s not necessarily for the masses. It’s also a platform and developer ecosystem explicitly made to get new/interested devs involved in game development with documented support for side loading. I preordered early on, and haven’t gotten mine yet, but I bought in to the idea because I love to tinker and have always wanted to dabble with game dev. I like the possibility that there will be many others like me, trying similar things on the same exact hardware, opening up opportunities for community and collaboration. I have yet to see if my excitement is warranted, but I thought it was worth mentioning that some people are not as focused on the end product as they are on the community, ecosystem and tinkering opportunities it enables.
- causality0 4y ago
  trying similar things on the same exact hardware, opening up opportunities for community and collaboration. The Gameboy homebrew community would provide that for you, with the added benefit of a much larger potential userbase.
  - haswell 4y ago
    I think that's great, but how accessible is that community? How high is the barrier to entry? Genuinely interested because I'll probably spend some time dabbling there. I don't think this needs to be an either/or conversation though.
  - cableshaft 4y ago
    As someone who's been really wanting to make a Gameboy port of one of my games and also played with PlayDate dev, PlayDate has been much easier to get up and running with it. Gameboy has been difficult enough (although it has gotten a lot easier with the gb dev kit, it's still not easy) I haven't gotten very far with it yet.
  - MBCook 4y ago
    Playdate games can be played online through the browser, I think. The Playdate has WAY more CPU power, WAY more RAM, WiFi, storage, and drastically better sound. Plus a crank! No need mor mapper chips or other complications. I like that they kept limitations like having a black and white screen (not greyscale ala GB), and a smaller resolution. so there are still creative constraints. But a lot of the software constraints no longer exist so it’s more approachable.
e1ghtSpace 4y ago
At first I thought that you could charge the batteries through the hand crank. Does anyone know if it would be throetically possible to fit something like that into such a small enclosure? I actually have an electronic game toy from when I was a teen that has a hand crank. If anyone wants to see a pic of it let me know.
- jbay808 4y ago
  Yes, it's possible. The components needed are very small. However I think it would risk people damaging their device (or their fingers) by trying to crank-charge the batteries too zealously.
  - MBCook 4y ago
    I think that was one of their original ideas. On top of your reason I think the problem was when they looked into it it was incredibly impractical to actually charge the device that way. You just couldn’t generate enough electricity with such a small crank. I mean if you had the crank for 10 minutes and it would only charge the little battery in that thing 1%, would it be worth it? That’s the impression I got.
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  This is what I thought it would be for, I have a small radio with a similar crank and it should be possible to power it that way. The designers probably considered it and I wonder why they didn’t do it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - philistine 4y ago
    A radio compared to an ARM chip with a display for gaming are not in the same hemisphere of power needs. You simply cannot power a system like that through a crank.
    - 4y ago
jxjddjdbd 4y ago
And the thing is, it’s made by Panic. A company, that aside from like one piece of software, is absolute garbage at supporting anything they sell. I wouldn’t own another Panic product if they paid me.
- jakelazaroff 4y ago
  Which software have they supported poorly? I’ve had nothing but good experiences with them. And even when they’ve had to retire an app, they’re usually super transparent about the reasoning.
  - neendib 4y ago
    - haswell 4y ago
      Please define "Corporate BS". 1. Do you believe there is ever a time when a developer should retire an unprofitable app, or should they be required to maintain everything they built in perpetuity? 2. When that time comes, how does one communicate such intent without it falling under your definition of Corporate BS? As someone who's been on the receiving end of discontinued products/services, of course this didn't make me very happy at the time. But at the end of the day, if something isn't bringing in money, I'd rather the developer does everything they can to create a soft landing for their existing users than try to pretend everything is fine and eventually become insolvent because of the expenditures on non-performing products, at which point their entire portfolio goes poof. Google has built a reputation for rug-pulling, and at this point that reputation is well deserved. But that doesn't automatically imply that every product discontinuation is Google-like, or "BS".
      - belitfam 4y ago
- gorgoiler 4y ago
caconym_ 4y ago
Here is a great image (from the Ars Technica review) showing how utterly bullshit the comparisons with the original Gameboy screen are: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_1681-1440x808.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_1... Since you mentioned reviewers getting their hands on Playdates: doubtless they're out there, but ("Metal Jesus", whatever that is, notwithstanding) I don't think I've seen a single net negative review from any source I previously considered anywhere close to reputable. Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinion—but as someone who presumably hasn't actually used a Playdate yourself, I don't think you're making much effort to keep yours objective.
- post_break 4y ago
  - caconym_ 4y ago
    Do you often feel the urge to project negative emotions onto strangers you have never met? Why do you think that is?
    - post_break 4y ago
      I'm just responding to your comment's tone in kind. Are you so upset with my opinion that you have to instantly discredit it because "whoever that is" review I based my opinion on isn't subjective? It's the most niche game console ever made, that I don't understand why it gets such high praise, but because it's made by Panic I just have to get all fuzzy at the whimsy!
      - caconym_ 4y ago
        > Are you so upset with my opinion that you have to instantly discredit it because "whoever that is" review I based my opinion on isn't subjective? There you go again with the projection. All I said was that you don't seem to be making much effort to be objective, and if you really based your entire opinion on a single random Youtuber's review (as you seem to imply here) then you've effectively made my point for me. > I don't understand why it gets such high praise Maybe you should check out some of the other reviews.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

*edit adding the review link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdP59hhiDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdP59hhiDg * This thing, I'll never forget John Grub

wlesieutre 4y ago

You need light to see it yes, but that screen is nowhere near OG gameboy issues

anyfoo 4y ago
Yeah. Not sure if the parent commenter had an original Gameboy as a kid, because if they did they wouldn't throw that comparison around so inflationarily...
- post_break 4y ago
  I had an original gameboy. So it's not exactly the same type of torture, but in 2022 not having backlighting is kind of a joke.
  - wlesieutre 4y ago
    It's a weird niche device with weird niche games, I'm not planning to buy one but I'm happy to see people doing something interesting instead of all chasing the same mass market. There's a certain retro appeal to the "shades of gray like a gameboy" screen without the part where it's impossible to see in 90% of lighting conditions.
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      It's not even shades of grey, it's black and white only (on or off). This means it's very high contrast and the white pixels are very reflective.
  - anyfoo 4y ago
    They tout the system as having "a very special black and white screen – not backlit, but super reflective – that looks way more amazing than you're probably imagining". If it is the kind of display I am imagining (which I think is different from the one they claim I probably am), then that display will probably look much better than an equivalent backlit displays. It's just not usable in low lighting conditions, which is a tradeoff I can imagine them accepting, and customers as well. Though unlike an original Gameboy, and more like a common book, a crappy bedside lamp will likely suffice.
rileyphone 4y ago
The screen isn’t a normal LCD but a Sharp Memory device - https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694
- AlanYx 4y ago
  Is that the same technology as RLCD, or is it a different type of display?
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    Pretty much. Memory LCD adds a bit of memory to each pixel so it doesn't need to refresh if it hasn't changed. Otherwise the same.
    - AlanYx 4y ago
      Thanks! I found a whitepaper describing the tech: https://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/resources/Polarizer-free_Reflective_LCD_White_Paper.pdf https://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/resources/Polarizer-free_Refl... In terms of display properties it's in a pretty sweet spot between eink (electrophoretic displays) and conventional RLCD. Slightly lower contrast than conventional RLCD but much better reflectance (roughly on par with eink).

jrm4 4y ago

I like the comparison to the iPhone, because for all it's done, the iPhone has effectively likely annihilated a generation worth of fun gadgetry. Nearly literally every available cell phone is an iPhone clone.

haswell 4y ago
> the iPhone has effectively likely annihilated a generation worth of fun gadgetry This just doesn’t ring true. It’s a golden age of fun gadgetry. It’s easier than ever before to combine off the shelf components (e.g. ESP8266) with a myriad of sensors and other devices. Can you expand on what you mean and what you’re referring yo? You seem to be implying that the Playdate will annihilate a generation of gaming gadgetry? I also don’t understand this when there’s a rich ecosystem of gadgetry all focused on various forms of gaming. Granted, most of those are focused on emulation, but the hardware is capable of more.
- xg15 4y ago
  Yes, it's easier than ever, but you'll also have fewer reasons than ever to actually do it, as most usecases for gadgets are already perfectly served by an off-the-shelf smartphone.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    "Perfectly?" Oh, HELL no. On a smaller level, quality suffers when you only have a brick and a touchscreen, too many activities are improved by better tactile controls. Also, quite a bit of those experiences are clunky due to intrusive software, notifications, etc. E.g. Personally I absolutely hate trying to listen to music on a cellphone, I don't want interruptions and I want to easily adjust song/volume without looking. Perhaps the biggest point: You can do NOTHING on a cellphone without being surveilled while doing it.
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      Regarding adjusting song/volume without looking, you can obviously adjust the volume with the volume buttons, but if you have an Android you can also change tracks with a long-press of the volume buttons, even when the screen is locked. I use a sideloaded app that uses an ADB-only permission that makes this possible (see link). I'm not sure why this isn't a native feature. https://github.com/Incineroar/skipTrackLongPressVolume https://github.com/Incineroar/skipTrackLongPressVolume

tshaddox 4y ago

This is the John Gruber article you're talking about (from May 2019): https://daringfireball.net/2019/05/playdate https://daringfireball.net/2019/05/playdate I just read the article expecting (based on your tone) to see Gruber making grand predictions about the Playdate being a massive success or having a massive impact. But no, it's very clear in the article that he's just personally excited about it. He doesn't make any grandiose predictions or even really attempt to persuade other people that they should be similarly excited about it. Clearly he just thinks it's neat for a small software company to develop their own affordable consumer electronics hardware. He's even explicit about thinking the product will likely be playing in a relatively small market: "Panic is almost cheating in a way because they’re tiny. The Playdate platform isn’t competing with the state of the art." I don't see any reason to roll your eyes about this one.

haswell 4y ago

The thing that I think some folks miss about the Playdate is that it’s not just a device meant to play a catalog of high budget polished games. It’s not necessarily for the masses. It’s also a platform and developer ecosystem explicitly made to get new/interested devs involved in game development with documented support for side loading. I preordered early on, and haven’t gotten mine yet, but I bought in to the idea because I love to tinker and have always wanted to dabble with game dev. I like the possibility that there will be many others like me, trying similar things on the same exact hardware, opening up opportunities for community and collaboration. I have yet to see if my excitement is warranted, but I thought it was worth mentioning that some people are not as focused on the end product as they are on the community, ecosystem and tinkering opportunities it enables.

causality0 4y ago
trying similar things on the same exact hardware, opening up opportunities for community and collaboration. The Gameboy homebrew community would provide that for you, with the added benefit of a much larger potential userbase.
- haswell 4y ago
  I think that's great, but how accessible is that community? How high is the barrier to entry? Genuinely interested because I'll probably spend some time dabbling there. I don't think this needs to be an either/or conversation though.
- cableshaft 4y ago
  As someone who's been really wanting to make a Gameboy port of one of my games and also played with PlayDate dev, PlayDate has been much easier to get up and running with it. Gameboy has been difficult enough (although it has gotten a lot easier with the gb dev kit, it's still not easy) I haven't gotten very far with it yet.
- MBCook 4y ago
  Playdate games can be played online through the browser, I think. The Playdate has WAY more CPU power, WAY more RAM, WiFi, storage, and drastically better sound. Plus a crank! No need mor mapper chips or other complications. I like that they kept limitations like having a black and white screen (not greyscale ala GB), and a smaller resolution. so there are still creative constraints. But a lot of the software constraints no longer exist so it’s more approachable.

e1ghtSpace 4y ago

At first I thought that you could charge the batteries through the hand crank. Does anyone know if it would be throetically possible to fit something like that into such a small enclosure? I actually have an electronic game toy from when I was a teen that has a hand crank. If anyone wants to see a pic of it let me know.

jbay808 4y ago
Yes, it's possible. The components needed are very small. However I think it would risk people damaging their device (or their fingers) by trying to crank-charge the batteries too zealously.
- MBCook 4y ago
  I think that was one of their original ideas. On top of your reason I think the problem was when they looked into it it was incredibly impractical to actually charge the device that way. You just couldn’t generate enough electricity with such a small crank. I mean if you had the crank for 10 minutes and it would only charge the little battery in that thing 1%, would it be worth it? That’s the impression I got.
twobitshifter 4y ago
This is what I thought it would be for, I have a small radio with a similar crank and it should be possible to power it that way. The designers probably considered it and I wonder why they didn’t do it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- philistine 4y ago
  A radio compared to an ARM chip with a display for gaming are not in the same hemisphere of power needs. You simply cannot power a system like that through a crank.
  - 4y ago

jxjddjdbd 4y ago

And the thing is, it’s made by Panic. A company, that aside from like one piece of software, is absolute garbage at supporting anything they sell. I wouldn’t own another Panic product if they paid me.

jakelazaroff 4y ago
Which software have they supported poorly? I’ve had nothing but good experiences with them. And even when they’ve had to retire an app, they’re usually super transparent about the reasoning.
- neendib 4y ago
  - haswell 4y ago
    Please define "Corporate BS". 1. Do you believe there is ever a time when a developer should retire an unprofitable app, or should they be required to maintain everything they built in perpetuity? 2. When that time comes, how does one communicate such intent without it falling under your definition of Corporate BS? As someone who's been on the receiving end of discontinued products/services, of course this didn't make me very happy at the time. But at the end of the day, if something isn't bringing in money, I'd rather the developer does everything they can to create a soft landing for their existing users than try to pretend everything is fine and eventually become insolvent because of the expenditures on non-performing products, at which point their entire portfolio goes poof. Google has built a reputation for rug-pulling, and at this point that reputation is well deserved. But that doesn't automatically imply that every product discontinuation is Google-like, or "BS".
    - belitfam 4y ago
gorgoiler 4y ago

caconym_ 4y ago

Here is a great image (from the Ars Technica review) showing how utterly bullshit the comparisons with the original Gameboy screen are: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_1681-1440x808.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_1... Since you mentioned reviewers getting their hands on Playdates: doubtless they're out there, but ("Metal Jesus", whatever that is, notwithstanding) I don't think I've seen a single net negative review from any source I previously considered anywhere close to reputable. Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinion—but as someone who presumably hasn't actually used a Playdate yourself, I don't think you're making much effort to keep yours objective.

post_break 4y ago
- caconym_ 4y ago
  Do you often feel the urge to project negative emotions onto strangers you have never met? Why do you think that is?
  - post_break 4y ago
    I'm just responding to your comment's tone in kind. Are you so upset with my opinion that you have to instantly discredit it because "whoever that is" review I based my opinion on isn't subjective? It's the most niche game console ever made, that I don't understand why it gets such high praise, but because it's made by Panic I just have to get all fuzzy at the whimsy!
    - caconym_ 4y ago
      > Are you so upset with my opinion that you have to instantly discredit it because "whoever that is" review I based my opinion on isn't subjective? There you go again with the projection. All I said was that you don't seem to be making much effort to be objective, and if you really based your entire opinion on a single random Youtuber's review (as you seem to imply here) then you've effectively made my point for me. > I don't understand why it gets such high praise Maybe you should check out some of the other reviews.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]