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Those are making a comeback. In January, DARPA successfully launched a Dynetics’ X-61A Gremlin UAV from the bay of a Lockheed Martin C-130A cargo aircraft. The

by AaronM 4y ago

Those are making a comeback. In January, DARPA successfully launched a Dynetics’ X-61A Gremlin UAV from the bay of a Lockheed Martin C-130A cargo aircraft. The program is aiming to demonstrate the efficacy of low-cost combat-capable drones that can be both deployed and recovered from cargo planes. DARPA envisions using cargo planes like the C-130 to deploy these drones while still outside of enemy air defenses; allowing the drones to go on and engage targets before returning to the airspace around the “mother ship” to be recaptured and carried home for service or repairs. https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/flying-aircraft-carriers-are-totally-possible-and-sort-of-crazy/ https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/flying-aircraft-carriers-are-to...

masklinn 4y ago
> Those are making a comeback. Various projects have been trying to bring them back for something like 2 decades. So far there have mostly been cancellations, and "slippage" (e.g. Lockheed's LMH-1, originally planned to float out in 2017, is still nowhere to be seen 5 years later; Airlander is supposed to start shipping in 2025 but the last news is they're trying to find a new location to build a facility).
- AaronM 4y ago
  I should have been more clear, the idea of launching flying things out of other flying things is making a comeback, not necessarily zeppelins in general
  - mlyle 4y ago
    Don't forget e.g. the M/D-21. Or Orbital Pegasus, or... air launched cruise missiles, or... This is an idea we flirt with, to varying success, over and over and over again.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > I should have been more clear, the idea of launching flying things out of other flying things is making a comeback To make a comeback, it would have to have gone away. Launching pilotless flying things from piloted flying things has been very continuously a thing in the military. (OTOH, recovering flying things to other flying things may be making a comeback.)
    - AaronM 4y ago
      Good point, that's actually what I meant.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  > Lockheed's LMH-1, originally planned to float out in 2017, is still nowhere to be seen 5 years later I mean, it looks like a giant floating butt. Maybe they are embarrassed to release it.
  - mijowi 4y ago
    Please tell me the aircraft exit the carrier via the cheeks.
ask_b123 4y ago
This was a very interesting read. Thanks!
UberFly 4y ago
Aren't black, radar-resistant zeppelins rumored to be the source of silent nighttime UFO sightings?
- satronaut 4y ago
  this is the first i've heard of this. links? not trying to be a jerk at all; i just like learning more about far out rumors like this.
  - kombucha13 4y ago
    I couldn't find what he was talking but found this interesting pdf that's more or less related to the topic. Clearly something close to what he's talking about is being considered and researched, at least as early as 2005. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/technical_reports/2005/RAND_TR423.pdf https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/technical_reports...
  - eightails 4y ago
    I think it's been raised in the context of a fair few sightings where there's supposedly been a very large craft moving silently and relatively slowly, e.g. the 2000 Illinois sightings (referenced in a great song by Sufjan Stevens). I was looking into this one a few years ago and found references to a private company testing blimp platforms for military purposes around that period, although I can't find it off the top of my head. More recently, the object spotted hovering off Hawaii last year that resulted in fighters scrambling was also proposed to be a modern balloon-based drone, of which there are a few currently being developed. Edit: here's a source arguing that the Illinois sighting was a regular advertising blimp https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4435 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4435
  - UberFly 4y ago
    Emphasis on the "rumor and speculation" aspect but it's been chattered about for many years: Stealth Blimp: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=Stealth+Blimp&atb=v269-1&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=Stealth+Blimp&atb=v269-1&ia...
Swizec 4y ago
> Those are making a comeback. With modern missile technology one could argue that fighter jets are primarily drone launch vehicles. Sure the drone explodes instead of coming back, but still. Flies and navigates on its own, launched in air from a mothership … Soon they’ll start landing back too I’m sure. Reconnaissance drones launched from a slower aircraft come to mind as a good use case. Or as command and control platforms for swarms of drones doing the work.
- heavenlyblue 4y ago
  That could save a lot of money that goes into navigation tech in missiles.
- godelski 4y ago
  The recovery thing could potentially resolve another K-13/AIM-9B incident, but I'm not sure this will be worthwhile. If you have fuel to return you have fuel to chase the target longer and to go faster. Personally I only see recovery as a useful feature if your weapons are really expensive or you want to create air mines. Which the latter is really a terrifying thought. It wouldn't be hard to have a bunch of drones with explosives create a screen/wall and take out anything that comes close enough. Returning things with explosives on it is also rather dangerous. You arm them when sending them out and if there's a bug they may still be armed when returning.
  - Swizec 4y ago
    Surely there’s going to eventually be drones that don’t go boom? Those would be nice to retrieve A wall of floating drones that go boom if you come too close sounds like a terrifying likely future. Especially if they’re too small to properly show up on radar
    - nradov 4y ago
      A wall of floating drones isn't a feasible concept. Small drones have an endurance measured in minutes. And they have an operating ceiling far lower than most manned aircraft.
boringg 4y ago
Sounds like the carrier class from Starcraft
- divbzero 4y ago
  There is also the long storied history of the Helicarrier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicarrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicarrier
  - emptysongglass 4y ago
    Why can't we have cool things like this? Fuel?
    - boringg 4y ago
      Right? Would be cool. That things feels like its the equivalent of the Yamato of the air eventually just being one giant target to expensive to operate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Yamato https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Yamato).
      - EL_Loco 4y ago
        One of my favorite cartoons growing up was the japanese series "Space Battleship Yamato", where in the future the Yamato was rebuilt as a spaceship. Good memories! (I wonder, though, if I would still enjoy it, were I to re-watch the series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato_(1977_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato_(1977_...
        _carbyau_ 4y ago
        It was amazing how often that show ran across problems that could be solved with one big gun... Like many modern computer games: Mission brief: "You have a mission of the utmost..." Me: clicks skip "Go in, shoot stuff, got it."
    - 4y ago
Someone 4y ago
I would like to see the economics of that compared to disposable, single-mission drones. Those wouldn’t have to return to the “mother ship”, so would be able to penetrate deeper into enemy territory, or carry more weapons, or be cheaper to produce. Also, with single-use drones, the C-130 could return immediately to fetch another load of drones. ⇒ I think this would only make sense for relatively expensive drones (but then, the US Air Force likely has a different idea about what is “low cost”. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder costs over $200k apiece)
- hervature 4y ago
  This is a little tongue-in-cheek but also kind of serious. But isn't a single use drone also known as a missile? More seriously, the operational domain between reusable drone and missile must be very small no? Like maybe something that can fly into a building before blowing up.
  - andkenneth 4y ago
    My understanding is that a missile is usually about hitting the target soon. A suicide UAV can do surveillance, maybe launch secondary munitions, and hover around quite a while before delivering its main payload. You might even be able to recover the UAV for a second mission if you decide to not use the suicide charge.
  - killjoywashere 4y ago
    Have a look at the aerostats used in Afghanistan. Just pour concrete, tether the balloon high enough they can't shoot it. https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/ptds.html https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/p...
    - is_true 4y ago
      I think Google Loon might be great for this
  - deleted 4y ago
Pxtl 4y ago
Good video on the subject, including the intermediate step that never left the drawing board - a 747 crammed full of "microfighters" as a flying aircraft carrier for manned fighters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnxZlS9gyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnxZlS9gyw
mizzao 4y ago
(in Protoss voice) Carrier has arrived. (?)
dr_dshiv 4y ago
“Drone Mothership” is both a great business idea and band name.

by AaronM 4y ago

masklinn 4y ago

> Those are making a comeback. Various projects have been trying to bring them back for something like 2 decades. So far there have mostly been cancellations, and "slippage" (e.g. Lockheed's LMH-1, originally planned to float out in 2017, is still nowhere to be seen 5 years later; Airlander is supposed to start shipping in 2025 but the last news is they're trying to find a new location to build a facility).

AaronM 4y ago
I should have been more clear, the idea of launching flying things out of other flying things is making a comeback, not necessarily zeppelins in general
- mlyle 4y ago
  Don't forget e.g. the M/D-21. Or Orbital Pegasus, or... air launched cruise missiles, or... This is an idea we flirt with, to varying success, over and over and over again.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > I should have been more clear, the idea of launching flying things out of other flying things is making a comeback To make a comeback, it would have to have gone away. Launching pilotless flying things from piloted flying things has been very continuously a thing in the military. (OTOH, recovering flying things to other flying things may be making a comeback.)
  - AaronM 4y ago
    Good point, that's actually what I meant.
ModernMech 4y ago
> Lockheed's LMH-1, originally planned to float out in 2017, is still nowhere to be seen 5 years later I mean, it looks like a giant floating butt. Maybe they are embarrassed to release it.
- mijowi 4y ago
  Please tell me the aircraft exit the carrier via the cheeks.

ask_b123 4y ago

This was a very interesting read. Thanks!

UberFly 4y ago

Aren't black, radar-resistant zeppelins rumored to be the source of silent nighttime UFO sightings?

satronaut 4y ago
this is the first i've heard of this. links? not trying to be a jerk at all; i just like learning more about far out rumors like this.
- kombucha13 4y ago
  I couldn't find what he was talking but found this interesting pdf that's more or less related to the topic. Clearly something close to what he's talking about is being considered and researched, at least as early as 2005. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/technical_reports/2005/RAND_TR423.pdf https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/technical_reports...
- eightails 4y ago
  I think it's been raised in the context of a fair few sightings where there's supposedly been a very large craft moving silently and relatively slowly, e.g. the 2000 Illinois sightings (referenced in a great song by Sufjan Stevens). I was looking into this one a few years ago and found references to a private company testing blimp platforms for military purposes around that period, although I can't find it off the top of my head. More recently, the object spotted hovering off Hawaii last year that resulted in fighters scrambling was also proposed to be a modern balloon-based drone, of which there are a few currently being developed. Edit: here's a source arguing that the Illinois sighting was a regular advertising blimp https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4435 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4435
- UberFly 4y ago
  Emphasis on the "rumor and speculation" aspect but it's been chattered about for many years: Stealth Blimp: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=Stealth+Blimp&atb=v269-1&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=Stealth+Blimp&atb=v269-1&ia...

Swizec 4y ago

> Those are making a comeback. With modern missile technology one could argue that fighter jets are primarily drone launch vehicles. Sure the drone explodes instead of coming back, but still. Flies and navigates on its own, launched in air from a mothership … Soon they’ll start landing back too I’m sure. Reconnaissance drones launched from a slower aircraft come to mind as a good use case. Or as command and control platforms for swarms of drones doing the work.

heavenlyblue 4y ago
That could save a lot of money that goes into navigation tech in missiles.
godelski 4y ago
The recovery thing could potentially resolve another K-13/AIM-9B incident, but I'm not sure this will be worthwhile. If you have fuel to return you have fuel to chase the target longer and to go faster. Personally I only see recovery as a useful feature if your weapons are really expensive or you want to create air mines. Which the latter is really a terrifying thought. It wouldn't be hard to have a bunch of drones with explosives create a screen/wall and take out anything that comes close enough. Returning things with explosives on it is also rather dangerous. You arm them when sending them out and if there's a bug they may still be armed when returning.
- Swizec 4y ago
  Surely there’s going to eventually be drones that don’t go boom? Those would be nice to retrieve A wall of floating drones that go boom if you come too close sounds like a terrifying likely future. Especially if they’re too small to properly show up on radar
  - nradov 4y ago
    A wall of floating drones isn't a feasible concept. Small drones have an endurance measured in minutes. And they have an operating ceiling far lower than most manned aircraft.

boringg 4y ago

Sounds like the carrier class from Starcraft

divbzero 4y ago
There is also the long storied history of the Helicarrier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicarrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicarrier
- emptysongglass 4y ago
  Why can't we have cool things like this? Fuel?
  - boringg 4y ago
    Right? Would be cool. That things feels like its the equivalent of the Yamato of the air eventually just being one giant target to expensive to operate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Yamato https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Yamato).
    - EL_Loco 4y ago
      One of my favorite cartoons growing up was the japanese series "Space Battleship Yamato", where in the future the Yamato was rebuilt as a spaceship. Good memories! (I wonder, though, if I would still enjoy it, were I to re-watch the series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato_(1977_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato_(1977_...
      - _carbyau_ 4y ago
        It was amazing how often that show ran across problems that could be solved with one big gun... Like many modern computer games: Mission brief: "You have a mission of the utmost..." Me: clicks skip "Go in, shoot stuff, got it."
  - 4y ago

Someone 4y ago

I would like to see the economics of that compared to disposable, single-mission drones. Those wouldn’t have to return to the “mother ship”, so would be able to penetrate deeper into enemy territory, or carry more weapons, or be cheaper to produce. Also, with single-use drones, the C-130 could return immediately to fetch another load of drones. ⇒ I think this would only make sense for relatively expensive drones (but then, the US Air Force likely has a different idea about what is “low cost”. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder costs over $200k apiece)

hervature 4y ago
This is a little tongue-in-cheek but also kind of serious. But isn't a single use drone also known as a missile? More seriously, the operational domain between reusable drone and missile must be very small no? Like maybe something that can fly into a building before blowing up.
- andkenneth 4y ago
  My understanding is that a missile is usually about hitting the target soon. A suicide UAV can do surveillance, maybe launch secondary munitions, and hover around quite a while before delivering its main payload. You might even be able to recover the UAV for a second mission if you decide to not use the suicide charge.
- killjoywashere 4y ago
  Have a look at the aerostats used in Afghanistan. Just pour concrete, tether the balloon high enough they can't shoot it. https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/ptds.html https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/p...
  - is_true 4y ago
    I think Google Loon might be great for this
- deleted 4y ago

Pxtl 4y ago

Good video on the subject, including the intermediate step that never left the drawing board - a 747 crammed full of "microfighters" as a flying aircraft carrier for manned fighters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnxZlS9gyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnxZlS9gyw

mizzao 4y ago

(in Protoss voice) Carrier has arrived. (?)

dr_dshiv 4y ago

“Drone Mothership” is both a great business idea and band name.