6 ms·

As someone who uses Linux daily, when will this stop being parroted. Your average person, your average BitTorrent user even, does not have the skill set requir

As someone who uses Linux daily, when will this stop being parroted. Your average person, your average BitTorrent user even, does not have the skill set required for the running of Linux to be anything near trivial...

netr0ute 4y ago
What site are we on again?
fartcannon 4y ago
At what point do you ask yourself if perhaps your opinion of the average user is out of date?
- skazazes 4y ago
  Probably around the time a Microsoft product does not appear in the top 100 torrents by seeds across all of the major public trackers
- unlaxedneurotic 4y ago
  Probably when my <50yo dad stops asking me to change the font size on his phone everytime he changes it. The thing is, technology is just a tool for most people and except software engineers almost no one wants to spend any time dealing with anything that they would have to configure. Until the day linux based OSes come pre-installed with sane defaults that work out of box on laptops, the average person won't use it.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    > Until the day linux based OSes come pre-installed with sane defaults that work out of box on laptops Here you go: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://puri.sm/products/librem-14.
    - SauciestGNU 4y ago
      Hell you don't even have to get as specialized as purism, Dell and Lenovo offer Linux pre-installed.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
fsflover 4y ago
Strongly depends on the hardware. Also, simply buy preinstalled Linux like I did.
- chopin 4y ago
  Which, may I ask? I have a Librem laptop, but I wouldn't give it to a previous Windows user because of the pre-installed desktop (some GNOME variant I think). On the other hand I installed Linux Mint on all family hardware with no issues (complaints from family members).
  - fsflover 4y ago
    > because of the pre-installed desktop You can install any Linux distro on a Librem laptop. Alternatively, there is System76.
elpatoisthebest 4y ago
This is a small anecdote. I replaced our family old iMac's OS with popOS about 18 months ago and my wife hasn't noticed yet. I'd rate her skill set as "has never and will never know that a keyboard can be used for copy/paste shortcuts" So I actually think there's a tail on either end of the tech savvy curve where users are happy with linux...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
michaelmrose 4y ago
This parody brought to you by the people for common sense. I have a system76 machine that I've used for years without any difficulty until my kids school said she needed access to this weird OS called Microsoft Windows that I don't know much about so I got a second drive and resolved to try this Windows thing on a secondary drive. Installing the physical drive was the easy part. Everything after that went south. First instead of just going to windows.com or something I got shunted to stores where they were selling entire computers. I didn't NEED a new computer just an OS. Then I found people selling things called cd keys. What are those? Who even buys an OS anymore? Eventually I figured out you can download something called an ISO file (what is that?) from microsoft and pay for it later? It looks like I'll be paying hundreds of dollars for what comes standard with Linux isn't that crazy? Then I tried to "burn" the iso to a usb drive and THAT didn't work so I borrowed a portable usb optical disk and bought some writable disks at Walmart like it was 1999 and finally got it installed whereupon it took a giant shit on my computers ability to boot anything except Windows. At first I thought it destroyed all my data on Linux and I about had a heart attack but after hours of troubleshooting I realized I just had to restore the ability to choose my OS at boot time and all my data was still there and I calmed down a bit. Then I booted up this "Windows". At first nothing worked including the internet so I had to do research on my phone. I discovered that unlike Linux windows doesn't actually come with the drivers needed for your machine you have to go to each manufacturers website and navigate their confusing site (and avoid malware sites offering drivers) and find each individual driver. If you ever need an update you will have to do this all over again unless the driver includes an auto update feature. For the stuff that does auto update if it ever causes a problem with your hardware it will probably be impossible to fix and you will just end up reinstalling windows all over again and hopefully realizing what tanked your install in the first place and people actually do this over and over again! It had a mediocre but acceptable set of default applications. Not nearly as good as my computer came with but its ok. Then I went to install some software I'm used to and I discovered the windows app store unlike Linux has almost nothing of value and one is expected to do the same dance as above for applications just like drivers. While downloading from a seemingly legit site I acquired several weird pieces of adware and an actual computer virus. Something I had previously just read about on the internet. Good thing this insecure OS didn't have any of my actual data! It's not surprising that few people use this "windows" thing. It's a total mess and not nearly ready for prime time. Maybe 2030 will be the year of the Windows Desktop.
rpmisms 4y ago
If all distros were Gentoo or Arch, you'd be correct, but Linux Mint exists, and my very non-technical grandmother has no issues using Mint for her day-to-day. Linux is no longer gatekept by the command line.
- mjevans 4y ago
  I would still recommend Debian, possibly with some added repos for things that need to be newer or which aren't normally included. If only that recently discussed change to include just the closed source firmware blobs in the standard dist gets approved, things would be even better than they currently are. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-Considering-Firmware https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-C...
- MathCodeLove 4y ago
  This is a fallacious comparison. There are 3 distinct tiers of users: 1. The basic users which really only use the web browser and maybe occasionally need to edit a document. 2. The "normal" users who need to use the web, office tools, perhaps some random domain specific software or games. 3. The super users, such as yourself. Linux works fine for users #1 and #3, it's user #2 that runs into major issues and they also happen to be the vast majority of users.
  - rpmisms 4y ago
    Maybe? My grandmother typesets organ music on her linux mint laptop and runs into no issues. Some people who need to use specific software still run into issues, but it's not guaranteed anymore.
MathCodeLove 4y ago
Thank you!! When I first set up Linux as my daily driver I questioned if perhaps I just chose a bad distro or got unlucky in my setup. After trying 2-3 distros I saw that even as a fledgling software engineer at the time I lacked the ability to set up Linux in accordance with my desires without hours of googling and frustration. Considering some of the issues I help my friends and family with on their personal computers, I couldn't imagine any of them installing and configuring Linux on their own. It frankly does more harm than good when people try to perpetuate the myth that a Linux installation is just as trivial as a modern Mac or Windows install as it causes people to approach Linux with unrealistic expectations.
- fsflover 4y ago
  > After trying 2-3 distros This is the wrong way. Try hardware designed for Linux instead of a Windows-certified one. Ideally, with preinstalled Linux. Look, the Linux community can't develop drivers for all hardware in the world for free, especially when it has no documentation whatsoever. > I lacked the ability to set up Linux in accordance with my desires without hours of googling and frustration This is so fuzzy, I can easily say the same for Windows or MacOS. Depending on you needs, hours of googling might even be very reasonable.
  - MathCodeLove 4y ago
    I had never used an Apple product before buying my mac mini but upon opening the box I had all needed software installed and was able to be productive in under an hour.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      Same for me with PureOS (although I prefer Qubes).
Epiphany21 4y ago
>Your average person, your average BitTorrent user even, does not have the skill set required for the running of Linux to be anything near trivial This says more about Windows users than it does about Linux. Numerous distro maintainers have already made things as easy as possible. Will you be satisfied when the installer has only one comically large button? How braindead does the setup process have to be? Have you actually used Linux in the last 15 years?

netr0ute 4y ago

What site are we on again?

fartcannon 4y ago

At what point do you ask yourself if perhaps your opinion of the average user is out of date?

skazazes 4y ago
Probably around the time a Microsoft product does not appear in the top 100 torrents by seeds across all of the major public trackers
unlaxedneurotic 4y ago
Probably when my <50yo dad stops asking me to change the font size on his phone everytime he changes it. The thing is, technology is just a tool for most people and except software engineers almost no one wants to spend any time dealing with anything that they would have to configure. Until the day linux based OSes come pre-installed with sane defaults that work out of box on laptops, the average person won't use it.
- fsflover 4y ago
  > Until the day linux based OSes come pre-installed with sane defaults that work out of box on laptops Here you go: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://puri.sm/products/librem-14.
  - SauciestGNU 4y ago
    Hell you don't even have to get as specialized as purism, Dell and Lenovo offer Linux pre-installed.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

fsflover 4y ago

Strongly depends on the hardware. Also, simply buy preinstalled Linux like I did.

chopin 4y ago
Which, may I ask? I have a Librem laptop, but I wouldn't give it to a previous Windows user because of the pre-installed desktop (some GNOME variant I think). On the other hand I installed Linux Mint on all family hardware with no issues (complaints from family members).
- fsflover 4y ago
  > because of the pre-installed desktop You can install any Linux distro on a Librem laptop. Alternatively, there is System76.

elpatoisthebest 4y ago

This is a small anecdote. I replaced our family old iMac's OS with popOS about 18 months ago and my wife hasn't noticed yet. I'd rate her skill set as "has never and will never know that a keyboard can be used for copy/paste shortcuts" So I actually think there's a tail on either end of the tech savvy curve where users are happy with linux...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

michaelmrose 4y ago

This parody brought to you by the people for common sense. I have a system76 machine that I've used for years without any difficulty until my kids school said she needed access to this weird OS called Microsoft Windows that I don't know much about so I got a second drive and resolved to try this Windows thing on a secondary drive. Installing the physical drive was the easy part. Everything after that went south. First instead of just going to windows.com or something I got shunted to stores where they were selling entire computers. I didn't NEED a new computer just an OS. Then I found people selling things called cd keys. What are those? Who even buys an OS anymore? Eventually I figured out you can download something called an ISO file (what is that?) from microsoft and pay for it later? It looks like I'll be paying hundreds of dollars for what comes standard with Linux isn't that crazy? Then I tried to "burn" the iso to a usb drive and THAT didn't work so I borrowed a portable usb optical disk and bought some writable disks at Walmart like it was 1999 and finally got it installed whereupon it took a giant shit on my computers ability to boot anything except Windows. At first I thought it destroyed all my data on Linux and I about had a heart attack but after hours of troubleshooting I realized I just had to restore the ability to choose my OS at boot time and all my data was still there and I calmed down a bit. Then I booted up this "Windows". At first nothing worked including the internet so I had to do research on my phone. I discovered that unlike Linux windows doesn't actually come with the drivers needed for your machine you have to go to each manufacturers website and navigate their confusing site (and avoid malware sites offering drivers) and find each individual driver. If you ever need an update you will have to do this all over again unless the driver includes an auto update feature. For the stuff that does auto update if it ever causes a problem with your hardware it will probably be impossible to fix and you will just end up reinstalling windows all over again and hopefully realizing what tanked your install in the first place and people actually do this over and over again! It had a mediocre but acceptable set of default applications. Not nearly as good as my computer came with but its ok. Then I went to install some software I'm used to and I discovered the windows app store unlike Linux has almost nothing of value and one is expected to do the same dance as above for applications just like drivers. While downloading from a seemingly legit site I acquired several weird pieces of adware and an actual computer virus. Something I had previously just read about on the internet. Good thing this insecure OS didn't have any of my actual data! It's not surprising that few people use this "windows" thing. It's a total mess and not nearly ready for prime time. Maybe 2030 will be the year of the Windows Desktop.

rpmisms 4y ago

If all distros were Gentoo or Arch, you'd be correct, but Linux Mint exists, and my very non-technical grandmother has no issues using Mint for her day-to-day. Linux is no longer gatekept by the command line.

mjevans 4y ago
I would still recommend Debian, possibly with some added repos for things that need to be newer or which aren't normally included. If only that recently discussed change to include just the closed source firmware blobs in the standard dist gets approved, things would be even better than they currently are. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-Considering-Firmware https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-C...
MathCodeLove 4y ago
This is a fallacious comparison. There are 3 distinct tiers of users: 1. The basic users which really only use the web browser and maybe occasionally need to edit a document. 2. The "normal" users who need to use the web, office tools, perhaps some random domain specific software or games. 3. The super users, such as yourself. Linux works fine for users #1 and #3, it's user #2 that runs into major issues and they also happen to be the vast majority of users.
- rpmisms 4y ago
  Maybe? My grandmother typesets organ music on her linux mint laptop and runs into no issues. Some people who need to use specific software still run into issues, but it's not guaranteed anymore.

MathCodeLove 4y ago

Thank you!! When I first set up Linux as my daily driver I questioned if perhaps I just chose a bad distro or got unlucky in my setup. After trying 2-3 distros I saw that even as a fledgling software engineer at the time I lacked the ability to set up Linux in accordance with my desires without hours of googling and frustration. Considering some of the issues I help my friends and family with on their personal computers, I couldn't imagine any of them installing and configuring Linux on their own. It frankly does more harm than good when people try to perpetuate the myth that a Linux installation is just as trivial as a modern Mac or Windows install as it causes people to approach Linux with unrealistic expectations.

fsflover 4y ago
> After trying 2-3 distros This is the wrong way. Try hardware designed for Linux instead of a Windows-certified one. Ideally, with preinstalled Linux. Look, the Linux community can't develop drivers for all hardware in the world for free, especially when it has no documentation whatsoever. > I lacked the ability to set up Linux in accordance with my desires without hours of googling and frustration This is so fuzzy, I can easily say the same for Windows or MacOS. Depending on you needs, hours of googling might even be very reasonable.
- MathCodeLove 4y ago
  I had never used an Apple product before buying my mac mini but upon opening the box I had all needed software installed and was able to be productive in under an hour.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    Same for me with PureOS (although I prefer Qubes).

Epiphany21 4y ago

>Your average person, your average BitTorrent user even, does not have the skill set required for the running of Linux to be anything near trivial This says more about Windows users than it does about Linux. Numerous distro maintainers have already made things as easy as possible. Will you be satisfied when the installer has only one comically large button? How braindead does the setup process have to be? Have you actually used Linux in the last 15 years?