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> You see this at the huge backlash you get, even here among relatively educated and informed commenters, when you dare to suggest that the US bears some respon

> You see this at the huge backlash you get, even here among relatively educated and informed commenters, when you dare to suggest that the US bears some responsibility for Ukraine's predicament even though Russia is of course wholly responsible for an unjustifiable invasion. Only 1 country is killing Ukrainians: Russia. There's no US troops massacring and raping Ukrainians... The only thing the US is responsible for is that they could have maybe threatened Russia enough to not invade. Anyhow, I've been sceptical of US hegemony at times however one thing is clear: the world is far better with the US as the dominant power than it would be if Russia or China were dominant. At least the US allows its citizens and those of its 'protectorates' (or whatever you want to call US allies/countries it protects) a large degree of personal freedom.

rufusroflpunch 5y ago
This viewpoint is simplistic to the point of absurdity.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  And your comment is useless and adds nothing.
- Supermancho 5y ago
  I assume you are refrring to the laughable statement: > The only thing the US is responsible for is that they could have maybe threatened Russia enough to not invade. as if that wasnt a factor (by proxy via NATO) initiating Russian aggression.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    > as if that wasnt a factor (by proxy via NATO) initiating Russian aggression. This is basically the "she wore a short dress" defense... The only country that initiated Russian aggression is Russia.
    - Supermancho 5y ago
      > This is basically the "she wore a short dress" defense... I'm not sure why you characterize the assertion as a "defense". It's a reason. People do things for reasons. Everyone makes choices based on how they perceive the world and predict the future from there. To flatly ignore circumstance is not constructive.
      - Mikeb85 5y ago
        It's a shit reason. Just like wearing a short dress is a "reason" rapists claim to rape. Russia is raping and killing for reasons. But those reasons are shit and Ukraine doesn't deserve what's happening to them.
- geranim0 5y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if these types of comments are state sponsored
  - loudmax 5y ago
    I don't know how active the IRA is on HN, but there absolutely are state sponsored comments like those on the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
    - mardifoufs 5y ago
      Are we back to blaming the JDF too? Why not, right? Everyone I disagree with is a state agent
BuckRogers 5y ago
The lines are clearer than ever for the 21st century. This century has been kicked off with the world struggle between democracy and totalitarianism. People have a choice. Choose the US/Europe/Japan/South Korea/Taiwan, or, the mideast/Russia/China. Many people voted with their feet, migrating to the former nations. Those people have no room to speak as they already voted. I'm missing some players of course, but generally speaking we in the Free World are definitely at a disadvantage and outnumbered by the hordes of people who desire strongmen and dictators. Most of the world actually does not want or trust themselves with self-determination through representative government. Russia is one of the few examples in Europe where the people want freedom, but don't really know what it is and are scared of the idea that they'll have to become active players in a non-farcical representative democracy. The middle east similarly never asked for democracy. They largely see no use for it. Most of Asia is the same. The typical Chinese person prefers the greatness of China as a nationalistic power, rather than the greatness of their institutions progressing the freedom of mankind. Which is how most of us in Europe and North America view our true strengths as. Of course, overt nationalism will lead to servitude, especially for Russia. They'll be losing Chechnya soon, and become a vassal state to China. Far lower than their previous state in the world. This is a nation that once slammed their foreheads on the ground in honor of their Turkish masters, now they are taking off their shoes for the Chinese. Their alternative choice was to ditch Putin, and join with the American, European and Asian democracies. Contrary to popular belief, we welcomed them. But Putin looks at old maps of the Russian Empire and honestly thought it was possible again. Being a farce democracy, there was no institutional resistance to stop him. He's only destroying Russia. The Russian people are also ultimately responsible here. They chose to cower to Putin. I'm sympathetic to them to a degree, these are a people that haven't and don't dare to speak their views outside of their kitchen table. Yet inaction is an action. They can still stop this. But they have to storm the Kremlin and take him out ASAP. It won't happen. We have a newly confirmed genocidal state in the world to contend with.
- hni 5y ago
  > The middle east similarly never asked for democracy. Oh boy... a blanket statement if ever I saw one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

rufusroflpunch 5y ago

This viewpoint is simplistic to the point of absurdity.

Mikeb85 5y ago
And your comment is useless and adds nothing.
Supermancho 5y ago
I assume you are refrring to the laughable statement: > The only thing the US is responsible for is that they could have maybe threatened Russia enough to not invade. as if that wasnt a factor (by proxy via NATO) initiating Russian aggression.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  > as if that wasnt a factor (by proxy via NATO) initiating Russian aggression. This is basically the "she wore a short dress" defense... The only country that initiated Russian aggression is Russia.
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    > This is basically the "she wore a short dress" defense... I'm not sure why you characterize the assertion as a "defense". It's a reason. People do things for reasons. Everyone makes choices based on how they perceive the world and predict the future from there. To flatly ignore circumstance is not constructive.
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      It's a shit reason. Just like wearing a short dress is a "reason" rapists claim to rape. Russia is raping and killing for reasons. But those reasons are shit and Ukraine doesn't deserve what's happening to them.
geranim0 5y ago
Sometimes I wonder if these types of comments are state sponsored
- loudmax 5y ago
  I don't know how active the IRA is on HN, but there absolutely are state sponsored comments like those on the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
  - mardifoufs 5y ago
    Are we back to blaming the JDF too? Why not, right? Everyone I disagree with is a state agent

BuckRogers 5y ago

The lines are clearer than ever for the 21st century. This century has been kicked off with the world struggle between democracy and totalitarianism. People have a choice. Choose the US/Europe/Japan/South Korea/Taiwan, or, the mideast/Russia/China. Many people voted with their feet, migrating to the former nations. Those people have no room to speak as they already voted. I'm missing some players of course, but generally speaking we in the Free World are definitely at a disadvantage and outnumbered by the hordes of people who desire strongmen and dictators. Most of the world actually does not want or trust themselves with self-determination through representative government. Russia is one of the few examples in Europe where the people want freedom, but don't really know what it is and are scared of the idea that they'll have to become active players in a non-farcical representative democracy. The middle east similarly never asked for democracy. They largely see no use for it. Most of Asia is the same. The typical Chinese person prefers the greatness of China as a nationalistic power, rather than the greatness of their institutions progressing the freedom of mankind. Which is how most of us in Europe and North America view our true strengths as. Of course, overt nationalism will lead to servitude, especially for Russia. They'll be losing Chechnya soon, and become a vassal state to China. Far lower than their previous state in the world. This is a nation that once slammed their foreheads on the ground in honor of their Turkish masters, now they are taking off their shoes for the Chinese. Their alternative choice was to ditch Putin, and join with the American, European and Asian democracies. Contrary to popular belief, we welcomed them. But Putin looks at old maps of the Russian Empire and honestly thought it was possible again. Being a farce democracy, there was no institutional resistance to stop him. He's only destroying Russia. The Russian people are also ultimately responsible here. They chose to cower to Putin. I'm sympathetic to them to a degree, these are a people that haven't and don't dare to speak their views outside of their kitchen table. Yet inaction is an action. They can still stop this. But they have to storm the Kremlin and take him out ASAP. It won't happen. We have a newly confirmed genocidal state in the world to contend with.

hni 5y ago
> The middle east similarly never asked for democracy. Oh boy... a blanket statement if ever I saw one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...