6 ms·

No taxes. No welfare. Welcome to libertarian paradise island

9 points by antr 4y ago

ehutch79 4y ago
Is it ironic that it's behind a paywall?
- standardly 4y ago
  Gloriously ironic
poulpy123 4y ago
Must be nice to be a parasite
Comevius 4y ago
It's 500 people on a tiny island demonstrating that 500 people don't need a government to function as a community. They say they can just make agreements between themselves, which is the purpose of the government, to solve that problem at scale. If one of them needs help I'm sure the rest of them would try to help, which is what wellfare is when millions of people are involved. I'm guessing that if I go there and start a business dumping waste on the island (which would be very profitable for me, it is increasingly costly to get rid of waste in most countries because of the stringent regulations) the people there would have to learn what taxes and regulations are for.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Anarcocapitalist and Libertarian frameworks can still have methods of dealing with such problems. At best they have laws, contracts, and private police and you would be sued. At worst, they might shoot you.
  - Comevius 4y ago
    I have a feeling that my waste dumping company would have a better chance at owning that private police, and the people making the laws. And the media. There would be many ways to distract and exploit the people. Creating uncertainty and a conspiratory political culture would capture most by offering a simplified, stabilized world and a sense of community. Exploiting distrustful people is the biggest industry there ever was unfortunately, including causing them to become distrustful, uncertain, isolated. It's how terrorists are made. It's how voters who vote for political extremism are made. Ironically all of this would only work at scale, 500 people on a tiny island would be harder to control, I'm guessing due to their closeness, or quality of their interactions. You could play them against other communities, but not against each other. We have a lot of brain stuff to ensure the viability of small communities. It's all built-in, taken care of. The problems only start at scale, when everyone is isolated. You have to be inventive at scale.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      The media and public sentiment shouldn't have anything to do with it. The key to all this is if you have rights to where you are dumping/storing waste. If you own the land and aren't damaging others, then you get to do it. If you dump on someone else's property, they might shoot you. Then entire selling point of libertarianism is that the opinions of others are irrelevant because there it minimal government power.
      - dTal 4y ago
        >Then entire selling point of libertarianism is that the opinions of others are irrelevant Beautifully put. It should be on a t-shirt. But then, the very concept of a "right" is defined by mutual agreement. Who is to say what "rights" you do or don't have?
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        You need a constitution to define rights and to stick to it. It is a contract and can't be whittled down or imposed on by public opinion. If own the rights to land, you can do with it what you want. If you want to put a garbage dump next to a playground, that is their problem if you aren't physically hurting them. Libertarians absolutely believe in laws that uphold rights, and legal precedent describing how rights interact.
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  See this is where that libertarian-paradise-town in New Hampshire went wrong: if you put yourself on an island, you are less likely to be overrun by bears.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Yeah doesn't scale.
- homonculus1 4y ago
  If you piss off 500 people on an island with no police force I suspect YOU are going to learn how informal governance works!
  - strikelaserclaw 4y ago
    Not if u pay a majority of them a tiny sum.
kalupa 4y ago
I feel like I know this story plot ...
jl2718 4y ago
> anarchy doesn’t scale Fair argument, but mostly a strawman against peaceful progress. Call it “nonviolence”. Define the broad goal of civilization as eliminating coercion, and these experiments seem useful.
imtringued 4y ago
I don't know if this works for you but if I visit the article through twitter I get past the paywall. https://twitter.com/FT/status/1517077628712275969 https://twitter.com/FT/status/1517077628712275969

9 points by antr 4y ago

ehutch79 4y ago

Is it ironic that it's behind a paywall?

standardly 4y ago
Gloriously ironic

poulpy123 4y ago

Must be nice to be a parasite

Comevius 4y ago

It's 500 people on a tiny island demonstrating that 500 people don't need a government to function as a community. They say they can just make agreements between themselves, which is the purpose of the government, to solve that problem at scale. If one of them needs help I'm sure the rest of them would try to help, which is what wellfare is when millions of people are involved. I'm guessing that if I go there and start a business dumping waste on the island (which would be very profitable for me, it is increasingly costly to get rid of waste in most countries because of the stringent regulations) the people there would have to learn what taxes and regulations are for.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
s1artibartfast 4y ago
Anarcocapitalist and Libertarian frameworks can still have methods of dealing with such problems. At best they have laws, contracts, and private police and you would be sued. At worst, they might shoot you.
- Comevius 4y ago
  I have a feeling that my waste dumping company would have a better chance at owning that private police, and the people making the laws. And the media. There would be many ways to distract and exploit the people. Creating uncertainty and a conspiratory political culture would capture most by offering a simplified, stabilized world and a sense of community. Exploiting distrustful people is the biggest industry there ever was unfortunately, including causing them to become distrustful, uncertain, isolated. It's how terrorists are made. It's how voters who vote for political extremism are made. Ironically all of this would only work at scale, 500 people on a tiny island would be harder to control, I'm guessing due to their closeness, or quality of their interactions. You could play them against other communities, but not against each other. We have a lot of brain stuff to ensure the viability of small communities. It's all built-in, taken care of. The problems only start at scale, when everyone is isolated. You have to be inventive at scale.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    The media and public sentiment shouldn't have anything to do with it. The key to all this is if you have rights to where you are dumping/storing waste. If you own the land and aren't damaging others, then you get to do it. If you dump on someone else's property, they might shoot you. Then entire selling point of libertarianism is that the opinions of others are irrelevant because there it minimal government power.
    - dTal 4y ago
      >Then entire selling point of libertarianism is that the opinions of others are irrelevant Beautifully put. It should be on a t-shirt. But then, the very concept of a "right" is defined by mutual agreement. Who is to say what "rights" you do or don't have?
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        You need a constitution to define rights and to stick to it. It is a contract and can't be whittled down or imposed on by public opinion. If own the rights to land, you can do with it what you want. If you want to put a garbage dump next to a playground, that is their problem if you aren't physically hurting them. Libertarians absolutely believe in laws that uphold rights, and legal precedent describing how rights interact.
fknorangesite 4y ago
See this is where that libertarian-paradise-town in New Hampshire went wrong: if you put yourself on an island, you are less likely to be overrun by bears.
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Yeah doesn't scale.
homonculus1 4y ago
If you piss off 500 people on an island with no police force I suspect YOU are going to learn how informal governance works!
- strikelaserclaw 4y ago
  Not if u pay a majority of them a tiny sum.

kalupa 4y ago

I feel like I know this story plot ...

jl2718 4y ago

> anarchy doesn’t scale Fair argument, but mostly a strawman against peaceful progress. Call it “nonviolence”. Define the broad goal of civilization as eliminating coercion, and these experiments seem useful.

imtringued 4y ago

I don't know if this works for you but if I visit the article through twitter I get past the paywall. https://twitter.com/FT/status/1517077628712275969 https://twitter.com/FT/status/1517077628712275969