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That's just Elon's marketing. He's comparing the cost of digging a (very narrow) tunnel, with no emergency egress, to the cost of a fully-realized subway system

That's just Elon's marketing. He's comparing the cost of digging a (very narrow) tunnel, with no emergency egress, to the cost of a fully-realized subway system with stations. In fact he's costing it out using commodity tunneling hardware. [1] [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/elon-musk-vegas-loop-traffic-b1988974.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/elon-musk-vegas-loop-traf...

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
So? If they can make that model work, it is still a big deal. I'm a bit tired of everyone thinking that only software can be disrupted. It could also be that they have no way of making this work, and will fail. That isn't weird for a startup either.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Well my point is, a thin tunnel using existing commodity tunneling equipment, without egress, that you put a private $50,000 car into hardly seems like a big "disruption." In fact, it sounds like one extra lane of freeway with a roof on it. Why not beta test whether adding one extra lane of freeway, but covering it with a roof, improves traffic? I'm betting it won't.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Express lanes with limited access of course do, and tunnels are a great way to save the city above for new routes. But even barring that, I don't see a future for cities that doesn't involve moving more transportation infrastructure underground (for both buses and private vehicles).
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      New capacity actually doesn't decrease traffic it increases it. It's called induced demand. [1] A sustainable future depends not on private cars in tiny tunnels, but subways and trains. Research by Kent Hymel of California State University of Northridge found that adding one percent more road capacity produces the exact same increase in the amount of vehicle miles traveled. Burying the road isn't going to change that. [1] https://archive.curbed.com/2020/3/6/21166655/highway-traffic-congestion-induced-demand https://archive.curbed.com/2020/3/6/21166655/highway-traffic...
- deleted 5y ago
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seanmcdirmid 5y ago

So? If they can make that model work, it is still a big deal. I'm a bit tired of everyone thinking that only software can be disrupted. It could also be that they have no way of making this work, and will fail. That isn't weird for a startup either.

arcticbull 5y ago
Well my point is, a thin tunnel using existing commodity tunneling equipment, without egress, that you put a private $50,000 car into hardly seems like a big "disruption." In fact, it sounds like one extra lane of freeway with a roof on it. Why not beta test whether adding one extra lane of freeway, but covering it with a roof, improves traffic? I'm betting it won't.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Express lanes with limited access of course do, and tunnels are a great way to save the city above for new routes. But even barring that, I don't see a future for cities that doesn't involve moving more transportation infrastructure underground (for both buses and private vehicles).
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    New capacity actually doesn't decrease traffic it increases it. It's called induced demand. [1] A sustainable future depends not on private cars in tiny tunnels, but subways and trains. Research by Kent Hymel of California State University of Northridge found that adding one percent more road capacity produces the exact same increase in the amount of vehicle miles traveled. Burying the road isn't going to change that. [1] https://archive.curbed.com/2020/3/6/21166655/highway-traffic-congestion-induced-demand https://archive.curbed.com/2020/3/6/21166655/highway-traffic...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]