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The ‘psychobiome': the gut bacteria that may alter how you think, feel, act
- petargyurov 4y agoI am surprised the article didn't touch at all on foods that are purported/reported to be GABA producers, specifically fermented foods.
- natsup123490 4y agoI definately react mentally to things happening in my gut. I suffer from IBS and the only times I have ever had dark moods in my adult live was during IBS episodes. I've even gone to the ER once for something I couldn't describe as pain but rather as "intense horror" which seemed to just confuse them.
- forum_ghost 4y agoyou ever had a colonoscopy biopsy? have them stain it for CD117, see if mast cells are outside the normal range of density.
- mjfl 4y ago> the only times I have ever had dark moods in my adult live was during IBS episodes. You've had a very happy life!
- senectus1 4y agothis might also be as simple as "feeling bloated and blocked up makes you feel like shit"
- nosefrog 4y agoI don't have IBS, but I have noticed that I feel a strong, deep sense of anxiety when my pipes are backed up, and it instantly goes away when I go number 2.
- nemo44x 4y agoIf you’re backed up sort of often you should beware of diverticulitis. It occurs in younger and younger people today. It’s not too strange to see a person in their early 30’s having a partial colectomy (or worse) nowadays.
- encephalos 4y agoIntense horror is referred to as "looming/impending fears of doom/dread" in medicine.. could be worth you checking out kidneys/adrenals (there’s a rare benign tumour that can grow on our adrenals called pheochromocytoma - that legit functions as a provider of intense horror kidding aside it can either over or under produce certain hormones mainly the ones that control fight or flight if I remember correctly so cortisol and epinephrine which is adrenaline’s new name). Again, it’s super rare BUT could be worth investigating if your IBS is actually something related to your endocrine system, so hormonal / pituitary-related. Edit: removed a double word
- forum_ghost 4y agopheo crisis would have BP and pulse through the roof as well (and probably lots of other things, flushing, HR, respiration, etc), and the first thing done in ER triage is vitals. It can be potentially an allergy also, also can induce impending doom, and BP variation could be within the norm, and even sometimes hypertensive instead of hypotension. endocrine-related IBS? how so?
- webmobdev 4y agoWhat you shared is quite interesting. But looming/impending fears of doom/dread is one of the tell-tale symptoms of anxiety (which is more plausible than a rare ailment for how common anxiety is. Anxiety also often has physical symptoms).
- refurb 4y agoPretty sure react mentally to any physical sensation in your body.
- thrown12 4y agoI have Crohn's disease and I get extremely sharp depressive symptoms up to a week before a flare up. The longer the lead time the worse the flare up. It's rather interesting to have depression re-framed as a symptom rather than as a disease. It does make me wonder if in the future we'll be looking at the treatment of depression today like we do at the treatment of fever with leaches.
- noir_lord 4y agoSame disease and same effect, Mood is often a bellweather of a flare up.
- doingtheiroming 4y agoIt's likely the inflammation that's causing the depression rather than any particular molecule produced by a bacterium though. I have the same experience with UC to the extent that taking steroids causes almost immediate relief of the depressive symptoms and I relapse when I taper. In my last flare, I tried to track depressive symptoms against CRP levels in my blood but being depressed, lost interest... Joking aside, I also wasn't getting the blood tests with sufficient frequency for it to be useful. "The Inflamed Mind" by Edward Bullamore is a good read on the subject.
- supertofu 4y agoHow can you be sure the steroids themselves aren't causing the mood change? I also have UC and steroids make me noticeably, behaviorally manic. I don't think the mania is due to the absence of inflammation.
- doingtheiroming 4y agoI can't. But there's good evidence that inflammation is linked with depression and steroids unquestionably reduce inflammation. They may well have further effects. They are certainly not something I want to take consistently.
- ng12 4y agoI have this as well. The gloom and doom kicks in about a day or two before the symptoms do. I take a strict regimen of fiber and probiotics to keep it at bay.
- tonis2 4y agoWhat fiber do you use, I should try adding it to my menu, probiotics help me a lot.
- jinder 4y agoPHGG, GOS and lactulose (if you don't have SIBO) are relatively good prebiotics in my experience. However, the type of prebiotics you use should be tied to what's going on in your microbiome. Some common ones, such as Inulin, can feed both good and bad bacteria (and good bacteria become bad if they overgrow).
- ng12 4y agoPsyllium husk (Metamucil is the most common brand name) is the most impactful for me.
- emmelaich 4y agoAlso the reverse (brain->gut). Obvious to anyone who suffers from motion sickness.
- rohfle 4y agolink to patent (US; AU/WIPO also filed): https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/92/85/c0/6e9c2dca606f11/US20190070225A1.pdf https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/92/85/c0/6e9c2dc...
- throwaway4711 4y agopatent application
- kevinventullo 4y agoGives new meaning to the phrase “gut instinct”.
- uoaei 4y agoI would argue that was the original meaning.
- cercatrova 4y agoMore and more our illusion of free will continues its degradation.
- Maursault 4y agoFree will is unmistakably real. Control is an illusion.
- cercatrova 4y agoHow is free will "unmistakably real?"
- fsloth 4y agoThe parent comment felt true to me. While not author of the parent comment I would like to explain why and how it feels true. I've suffered clinical depression so am quite familiar with strong mood swings. It's never been bad enough that I would be hospitalized or anything. But some of the moods have been really bad. Had I followed my worst "gut feels" I would likley be alchoholic, divorced, unemployed and homeless. So I have parts of me sending these literally gut wrenching emotions that direct me to lash out, do stupid things - anything for the make the immediate psychic pain to stop. And at that point I have the option to either follow these feelings, or say no. I will do this other thing instead which I really hate doing right now but I know will make me feel better in a while. I would characterize this as an example of free will in action. I cannot control these emotions. But I can choose how to react to them. And I can choose behaviours that lead to better outcomes (exercise, sleep, etc) even though I don't find them emotionally rewarding (except after the fact when I notice a better mood, being happier in my body). The higher control is of course still some statistical or deterministic outcome of my current neurological state. But I am 100% I am at least not directly driven by my strongest gut feelings as far as I perceive them.
- turtleyacht 4y agoNon-Violent Communication (NVC) also emphasizes control over reactions [0]. It's still hard to do. I have to think in language instead of reflex. And it doesn't always work--or I refuse to let it work--in other contexts. Still a work in progress, I guess. [0] Sears, Melanie. Humanizing Health Care. 1st, PuddleDancer Press, 2010.
- librarianscott 4y ago2020 article.
- bergerjac 4y agoMultiple times, I've performed a multi-hour intestinal cleanse from the Yogic disciplines. And many times there is a mental-emotional release hours later.
- srge 4y agoCould you explain what a multi-hour intestinal cleanse from the Yogic disciplines is?
- krageon 4y agoPooping while breathing properly is what immediately springs to mind. Why this has to take hours, no idea.
- multjoy 4y agoNo point rushing these things!
- randomopining 4y agoBecause it's one of the best things in life lol
- WaxedChewbacca 4y ago
- narrator 4y agoHow about Fusarium molds which are present in many foods like nuts, grains, coffee and chocolate? These Fusarium molds produce zearalenone, a potent estrogen mimetic which was linked to homosexual behavior and infertility in farm animals that ate Fusarium infected grains[1]. These molds can infect and become persistent in humans[2]. Sure, it's extremely controversial subject matter to even suggest this linkage, but I'll take the downvotes. [1]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/026010608700500212 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/026010608700500... [2]https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/JCM.00120-06 https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/JCM.00120-06
- lordofgibbons 4y agoInteresting, I haven't heard of this before. Aren't almost all of those nuts/grains roasted before they're consumed? That should kill off any mold spores.
- pure_simplicity 4y agoVery interesting! Now would it have the same effect in humans? Would be interesting. I see no reason to downvote this... weren't LGBTQ people arguing for the longest time that there is a biological causation? They may have finally found it, though it is not genetic like they hoped for. Either way it is interesting. Unfortunately it's not all too uncommon these days to simply assume (project?) bigotry and treat innocent people like crap over that assumption.
- rhn_mk1 4y ago
- willis936 4y agoWhile the direction of causality feels given, I would like the arguments held up to scrutiny. Why wouldn't the body exude control over the gut biome by influencing its environment?
- doingtheiroming 4y agoI find it odd that people acknowledge the fearsome complexity of the gut biome with one breath before saying that they hope to isolate a single molecule made by it to positively affect another complex phenomenon, with the next.
- doingtheiroming 4y agoThe same promise was held out for Ulcerative Colitis / Crohns. Composition of the gut biome clearly plays a role in both illnesses. But the search for small molecule drugs building on this observation seems to have been fruitless. That might be because it's not the presence of a particular molecule in bacterial poop that's influencing the disease but something about the biome as a whole. More positively, it might also be that the tools available at the start of that search were nothing like as good as those we have now as interest in the brain / biome link grows. I tend to think it unlikely that small molecules for effective treatment of anything much will result from this but I've no doubt a great deal of useful and important things will be learned in the process. I'd love to be wrong.
- sdedovic 4y ago> the search for small molecule drugs building on this observation seems to have been fruitless I imagine this is such a perfect use case for large-scale data analytics. Maybe with the next (or n+2 or n+10) generation of wearables we may be able to track some of the macro effects of diet, exercise, air quality, sleep, etc. at such a big scale that we can determine how individual factors can affect mood and behaviour. Ignoring the privacy and political concerns aside, it seems like such a cool problem space.
- doingtheiroming 4y agoOne of the challenges faced in the early days was simply to get the bacteria to reproduce. It’s not clear for any given bacteria what substrate and food source is useful. Not being able to do that was an obstacle to the analytics since much of the basic data couldn’t be developed. It seems we are better at that now.
- xyzzy21 4y agoIt could indeed be the interaction of two (2) complex, mutually interacting feedback loops. Definitely not a simple reductive result. But well within that complexity theory can address.
- tzs 4y agoHmmm...so it would theoretically be possible to make a pill that would alter that, and so influence what you think, feel, and say? Zager and Evans in their well known oral presentation on likely future directions and developments of humanity didn't have that happening for another 1500 years.