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Now that you mention it, someone at Reddit just asked a few minutes ago if the Big Bang is the 'answer' to the creation of the universe, and one of the replies

Now that you mention it, someone at Reddit just asked a few minutes ago if the Big Bang is the 'answer' to the creation of the universe, and one of the replies was > No. That is just so called scientists guessing. Everyone knows existence was created 4000 years ago by God. Anyone that tells you otherwise is delusional.[0] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/u85guq/comment/i5izams/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/u85guq/c...

outworlder 5y ago
It's interesting how they never question anything past that. That answer just kicks the can down the road. Sure, let's assume it's true. Where did God come from?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lucidone 5y ago
  That's similar to asking where infinity starts and ends. I like Spinoza's bit about a self-causing cause for this.
  - typeofhuman 5y ago
    (function () { new Infinity().start() }());
- prmph 5y ago
  Well, where did the universe come from? Where did time come from? When did it begin? There are certain things the answers to which goes beyond the bounds of the naive logic we are familiar with. The Bible says that God has no beginning (or end), he exists outside the bounds of time. Though it is hard to wrap our heads around that concept, there is no reason to think it is not possible, considering the rhetorical questions above.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    One thing I've noticed is that there is huge spectrum of beliefs about what God is: On the one end God is just some kind of vague abstract energy that acts akin to some force fate and ends up not being that different to an agnostic or scientific viewpoint of the world. On the other end you get a highly personified God that thinks in a human-like way with highly specific wants and desires who acts as a moral authority in addition to being a creator (although the rationale behind them being a moral authority never seems to be explained) I think God as a metaphor for the unknown needs little justification (as you say nobody really has a better explanation). But God as a human-like moral authority doesn't in any way follow from that, and there is lots of reason to think that there is no such God.
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      > although the rationale behind them being a moral authority never seems to be explained Isn't that a consequence of the is-ought problem?[0] Where can "oughts" come from? Perhaps this is the same sort of question as "From where does the state derive its authority to impose laws?". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    > There are certain things the answers to which goes beyond the bounds of the naive logic we are familiar with. I don't think answering any of these questions are beyond the bounds of our abilities to inquire rationally, form explanations, improve those explanations through criticism, etc. It's true that there will be no "ultimate answer," because for any current best explanation we have about the origins or workings of the world we can ask the question "why is it that way rather than some other way?" And if we later develop an explanation that answers that question, we can ask the same question of that new explanation. That process will never end, but that doesn't mean any one instance of that question will be beyond our abilities.
  - pixl97 5y ago
    I mean science says the same thing about the big bang. That 'outside' of our universe that it's completely possible for time to have no meaning. It's also possible for the universe to be infinite, yet have a very recent beginning.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  I had a very good conversation with a Christian friend about this. For him using God to explain the more immediate questions was a more satisfying answer even if God itself was left unexplained, whereas I found it more satisfying just to leave the immediate questions unexplained if no explanation was available. We ended up agreeing to disagree, but I think we both learnt something from each other's perspective.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    If your Christian friend is correct, then he'll have an eternity to spend studying the question of where God came from, with the added advantage of having God readily available to answer his questions. Solving just the immediate questions in this life has a nice parsimonious feel to it, actually, like dropping hints for a sequel in the first movie of a (potentially infinite?) series.
    - gridspy 5y ago
      It seems a huge pity to drop an interesting question during your life because "Oh well, God will clear that up for me after I die."
      - dane-pgp 5y ago
        "Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?" https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/robert_browning_108884 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/robert_browning_108884
    - adamredwoods 5y ago
      Assuming eternity allows question forming or 'thinking' of any sort.
- homonculus1 5y ago
  Where did the big bang come from?
  - gridspy 5y ago
    Hard to say. It appears to have eradicated all evidence. That's why we study the microwave background so much.
- adamredwoods 5y ago
  >> Sure, let's assume it's true. Where did God come from? We can also assume it's false. Where did God come from? A human social construct to provide comforting answers per geographic or cultural associations.
- vlunkr 5y ago
  As another commented said, the bible says God has no beginning, so there you go. More importantly though, religion is meant to explain the meaning of life, not that the chain of events that lead to it. It has fundamentally different, though not necessarily incompatible, goals than science. So in short, the answer is that from a religious perspective, it doesn't matter.
amelius 5y ago
Both can be true. God created the universe 4000 years ago, but did so by creating in his mind a big bang and fast-forwarding time to 2000BC. Then instantiating physically what he was thinking of.
- tilt_error 5y ago
  Turtles all the way down…
- bitwize 5y ago
  Thus confirming what we knew all along: Dwarf Fortress is God.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  It's also possible God will do this but hasn't yet. When God finally decides to do it is when all the computation will occur, including the computation that comprises our consciousness on April 20, 2022.
  - giraffe_lady 5y ago
    There's a name for this in theology but I forget it now. It's the reasoning behind praying for people in the past. Not their souls now, but their actual living selves in the past. I think the idea is that timeless god will hear your prayers from the future and may be influenced by them backwards in time. idk I'm not a theologian.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      I'm not familiar with the theological concept you're referring to, but it does reminds me of something that bothered me as a young child. I remember thinking it was very odd that people would pray for an outcome they knew had already occurred, but they simply didn't know what the outcome was yet.
      - dane-pgp 5y ago
        > people would pray for an outcome they knew had already occurred From God's perspective, though, it doesn't matter if the prayer occurs before or after the event, (assuming God exists outside of time and knows everything that has happened and will ever happen). That might seem to open the possibility that believers could pray for events to be retroactively changed from a known (to them) outcome to a different outcome (rewriting their memories in the process), but presumably the claim is that God's will is revealed through the outcomes themselves, and the believer should update their desires based on that revealed will.
ren_engineer 5y ago
that comment seems more like a weak troll attempt
typeofhuman 5y ago
Reminds of the unfalsifiable hypothesis, Last Thursdayism. > Last Thursdayism is the idea that the universe was created last Thursday, but with the physical appearance of being billions of years old.[0] [0] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    And that's because there has never been one.
    - DrBoring 5y ago
      You just don't understand football, Marge.
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  I prefer Next Tuesdayism. The universe will have been created next Tuesday, with the physical appearance of being billions of years old. Your current "consciousness" is merely the memory you'll think you have next Tuesday.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Is there a "there are no Tuesdaysism"? Every Tuesday is an artifact of consciousness and misunderstood physics and never actually occurs?

outworlder 5y ago

It's interesting how they never question anything past that. That answer just kicks the can down the road. Sure, let's assume it's true. Where did God come from?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lucidone 5y ago
That's similar to asking where infinity starts and ends. I like Spinoza's bit about a self-causing cause for this.
- typeofhuman 5y ago
  (function () { new Infinity().start() }());
prmph 5y ago
Well, where did the universe come from? Where did time come from? When did it begin? There are certain things the answers to which goes beyond the bounds of the naive logic we are familiar with. The Bible says that God has no beginning (or end), he exists outside the bounds of time. Though it is hard to wrap our heads around that concept, there is no reason to think it is not possible, considering the rhetorical questions above.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  One thing I've noticed is that there is huge spectrum of beliefs about what God is: On the one end God is just some kind of vague abstract energy that acts akin to some force fate and ends up not being that different to an agnostic or scientific viewpoint of the world. On the other end you get a highly personified God that thinks in a human-like way with highly specific wants and desires who acts as a moral authority in addition to being a creator (although the rationale behind them being a moral authority never seems to be explained) I think God as a metaphor for the unknown needs little justification (as you say nobody really has a better explanation). But God as a human-like moral authority doesn't in any way follow from that, and there is lots of reason to think that there is no such God.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    > although the rationale behind them being a moral authority never seems to be explained Isn't that a consequence of the is-ought problem?[0] Where can "oughts" come from? Perhaps this is the same sort of question as "From where does the state derive its authority to impose laws?". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem
- tshaddox 5y ago
  > There are certain things the answers to which goes beyond the bounds of the naive logic we are familiar with. I don't think answering any of these questions are beyond the bounds of our abilities to inquire rationally, form explanations, improve those explanations through criticism, etc. It's true that there will be no "ultimate answer," because for any current best explanation we have about the origins or workings of the world we can ask the question "why is it that way rather than some other way?" And if we later develop an explanation that answers that question, we can ask the same question of that new explanation. That process will never end, but that doesn't mean any one instance of that question will be beyond our abilities.
- pixl97 5y ago
  I mean science says the same thing about the big bang. That 'outside' of our universe that it's completely possible for time to have no meaning. It's also possible for the universe to be infinite, yet have a very recent beginning.
nicoburns 5y ago
I had a very good conversation with a Christian friend about this. For him using God to explain the more immediate questions was a more satisfying answer even if God itself was left unexplained, whereas I found it more satisfying just to leave the immediate questions unexplained if no explanation was available. We ended up agreeing to disagree, but I think we both learnt something from each other's perspective.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  If your Christian friend is correct, then he'll have an eternity to spend studying the question of where God came from, with the added advantage of having God readily available to answer his questions. Solving just the immediate questions in this life has a nice parsimonious feel to it, actually, like dropping hints for a sequel in the first movie of a (potentially infinite?) series.
  - gridspy 5y ago
    It seems a huge pity to drop an interesting question during your life because "Oh well, God will clear that up for me after I die."
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      "Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?" https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/robert_browning_108884 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/robert_browning_108884
  - adamredwoods 5y ago
    Assuming eternity allows question forming or 'thinking' of any sort.
homonculus1 5y ago
Where did the big bang come from?
- gridspy 5y ago
  Hard to say. It appears to have eradicated all evidence. That's why we study the microwave background so much.
adamredwoods 5y ago
>> Sure, let's assume it's true. Where did God come from? We can also assume it's false. Where did God come from? A human social construct to provide comforting answers per geographic or cultural associations.
vlunkr 5y ago
As another commented said, the bible says God has no beginning, so there you go. More importantly though, religion is meant to explain the meaning of life, not that the chain of events that lead to it. It has fundamentally different, though not necessarily incompatible, goals than science. So in short, the answer is that from a religious perspective, it doesn't matter.

amelius 5y ago

Both can be true. God created the universe 4000 years ago, but did so by creating in his mind a big bang and fast-forwarding time to 2000BC. Then instantiating physically what he was thinking of.

tilt_error 5y ago
Turtles all the way down…
bitwize 5y ago
Thus confirming what we knew all along: Dwarf Fortress is God.
tshaddox 5y ago
It's also possible God will do this but hasn't yet. When God finally decides to do it is when all the computation will occur, including the computation that comprises our consciousness on April 20, 2022.
- giraffe_lady 5y ago
  There's a name for this in theology but I forget it now. It's the reasoning behind praying for people in the past. Not their souls now, but their actual living selves in the past. I think the idea is that timeless god will hear your prayers from the future and may be influenced by them backwards in time. idk I'm not a theologian.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    I'm not familiar with the theological concept you're referring to, but it does reminds me of something that bothered me as a young child. I remember thinking it was very odd that people would pray for an outcome they knew had already occurred, but they simply didn't know what the outcome was yet.
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      > people would pray for an outcome they knew had already occurred From God's perspective, though, it doesn't matter if the prayer occurs before or after the event, (assuming God exists outside of time and knows everything that has happened and will ever happen). That might seem to open the possibility that believers could pray for events to be retroactively changed from a known (to them) outcome to a different outcome (rewriting their memories in the process), but presumably the claim is that God's will is revealed through the outcomes themselves, and the believer should update their desires based on that revealed will.

ren_engineer 5y ago

that comment seems more like a weak troll attempt

typeofhuman 5y ago

Reminds of the unfalsifiable hypothesis, Last Thursdayism. > Last Thursdayism is the idea that the universe was created last Thursday, but with the physical appearance of being billions of years old.[0] [0] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
- munk-a 5y ago
  And that's because there has never been one.
  - DrBoring 5y ago
    You just don't understand football, Marge.
SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
I prefer Next Tuesdayism. The universe will have been created next Tuesday, with the physical appearance of being billions of years old. Your current "consciousness" is merely the memory you'll think you have next Tuesday.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Is there a "there are no Tuesdaysism"? Every Tuesday is an artifact of consciousness and misunderstood physics and never actually occurs?