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This is, in my opinion, a product of personal vehicle dependant society. I am lucky enough to not dependend on a car for my everyday activity, and only using m

This is, in my opinion, a product of personal vehicle dependant society. I am lucky enough to not dependend on a car for my everyday activity, and only using my car a couple of times a week. I can totally understand people being in the habit of getting in and out of their vehicle without checking the rear seat. Any child death is a tragedy, and a loss for the whole community.

rootusrootus 5y ago
> This is, in my opinion, a product of personal vehicle dependant society. Because no children would ever die in an accident involving public transportation? We could just call it an accident and not try to dig too deeply into societal problems to explain it. A little perspective: 3.6M babies/year are born in the US every year. 15-20 accidents like this occur each year. Tragic, yes, but it's not even remotely close to a trend that needs some underlying explanation.
- frenchy 5y ago
  > Because no children would ever die in an accident involving public transportation? I apologise for an appeal to "common sense" since I really don't have any data, but it seems sort of obvious that it would be safer for two reasons: 1. There's almost always other people there, so someone is likely to warn you that you abandoned your kid. 2. Your kid is there with you, so it's not like you have to remember them. You're trying to make the argument that "a few kids being locked in cars every year isn't that significant in the larger picture". That's a different argument than "the reason kids are locked in cars is because people are driving in cars".
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    I'm saying that it's a stretch to assume that kids dying in personal transportation is a problem that would be effectively solved by moving away from personal transportation, unless you don't care about actual deaths and only that they happened in personal transportation. The death rate is low enough that it makes any such claims suspicious.
- yohannparis 5y ago
  No kids would die by being forgotten in a public transport. And this point as nothing to do with what I said. My point was that those kids die because their parents are forced to use their personal vehicle to do anything (groceries, drop mail, going to work, see friends) that sometimes they forgot they brought their kids with them, because of habits of being alone in the car. So, yes, so death are the product of a society dependant on personal vehicle.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    > No kids would die by being forgotten in a public transport. That is a bold assertion. I have certainly been the only human on public transportation at times. You are intentionally narrowing your argument to "forgotten in personal vehicle" so you can say that personal vehicles are bad. That does not seem profound. Moving entirely to public transportation would eliminate that precise risk while introducing others. And the net result may actually be more deaths. Keep in mind how rare children dying in cars is today.
    - yohannparis 5y ago
      It feels like you are looking for an argument that I am not making. > I have certainly been the only human on public transportation at times. Their are always a driver of a vehicle, or other passengers coming in less than an hour or so... > Moving entirely to public transportation would eliminate that precise risk while introducing others I never imply to move entirely to public transportation. The best solution is multi-modal transportation. > Keep in mind how rare children dying in cars is today. This is an argument I despise, specially related to cars... Any death is bad, and should be avoided, whatever how! A simple example, in the USA, is the whole wave of rules, laws, etc. after the attach of 9/11. Less than 3000 died[1] because of it. That's equal to only one month of road death in 2020 or 2021[2]. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm51SPa6.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm51SPa6.htm [2] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813199 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago

rootusrootus 5y ago

> This is, in my opinion, a product of personal vehicle dependant society. Because no children would ever die in an accident involving public transportation? We could just call it an accident and not try to dig too deeply into societal problems to explain it. A little perspective: 3.6M babies/year are born in the US every year. 15-20 accidents like this occur each year. Tragic, yes, but it's not even remotely close to a trend that needs some underlying explanation.

frenchy 5y ago
> Because no children would ever die in an accident involving public transportation? I apologise for an appeal to "common sense" since I really don't have any data, but it seems sort of obvious that it would be safer for two reasons: 1. There's almost always other people there, so someone is likely to warn you that you abandoned your kid. 2. Your kid is there with you, so it's not like you have to remember them. You're trying to make the argument that "a few kids being locked in cars every year isn't that significant in the larger picture". That's a different argument than "the reason kids are locked in cars is because people are driving in cars".
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I'm saying that it's a stretch to assume that kids dying in personal transportation is a problem that would be effectively solved by moving away from personal transportation, unless you don't care about actual deaths and only that they happened in personal transportation. The death rate is low enough that it makes any such claims suspicious.
yohannparis 5y ago
No kids would die by being forgotten in a public transport. And this point as nothing to do with what I said. My point was that those kids die because their parents are forced to use their personal vehicle to do anything (groceries, drop mail, going to work, see friends) that sometimes they forgot they brought their kids with them, because of habits of being alone in the car. So, yes, so death are the product of a society dependant on personal vehicle.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > No kids would die by being forgotten in a public transport. That is a bold assertion. I have certainly been the only human on public transportation at times. You are intentionally narrowing your argument to "forgotten in personal vehicle" so you can say that personal vehicles are bad. That does not seem profound. Moving entirely to public transportation would eliminate that precise risk while introducing others. And the net result may actually be more deaths. Keep in mind how rare children dying in cars is today.
  - yohannparis 5y ago
    It feels like you are looking for an argument that I am not making. > I have certainly been the only human on public transportation at times. Their are always a driver of a vehicle, or other passengers coming in less than an hour or so... > Moving entirely to public transportation would eliminate that precise risk while introducing others I never imply to move entirely to public transportation. The best solution is multi-modal transportation. > Keep in mind how rare children dying in cars is today. This is an argument I despise, specially related to cars... Any death is bad, and should be avoided, whatever how! A simple example, in the USA, is the whole wave of rules, laws, etc. after the attach of 9/11. Less than 3000 died[1] because of it. That's equal to only one month of road death in 2020 or 2021[2]. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm51SPa6.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm51SPa6.htm [2] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813199 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...
- dzhiurgis 5y ago