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100% agree, and I must add: Those are all political problems. Technology does not solve political problems. Politics solves political problems. All cryptocurr

100% agree, and I must add: Those are all political problems. Technology does not solve political problems. Politics solves political problems. All cryptocurrency does is obfuscate the politics behind its monetary system. As flawed as our monetary system is, the politics behind it are visible and under control of a government. In my country, my government is elected, and I'm an active and informed voter. Thus, I think the best way to solve those problems is to be an informed voter, vote, and encourage other countries to adopt democracies.

eimrine 5y ago
> Technology does not solve political problems. Bitcoin has solved an international transaction of money which were political problem.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Bitcoin has solved an international transaction of money which were political problem. That is a problem that was already solved. I've personally bought things from foreign countries (in person, and via mail order) with a credit card.
  - eimrine 5y ago
    Try to buy something from not-so-friendly urisdiction. And you will see the difference between storytelling and business.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      >> That is a problem that was already solved. I've personally bought things from foreign countries (in person, and via mail order) with a credit card. > Try to buy something from not-so-friendly urisdiction. And you will see the difference between storytelling and business. Give an actual example, rather than a vague hand-waving hypothetical. Some random points: 1. For mail order: paying is only part of it. Shipping is just as important. Are you hypothesizing a "not-so-friendly [j]urisdiction" where international payment difficult but international mail is easy? 2. For in person: would the person prefer my crisp American dollars or dicking around with Bitcoin addresses and waiting hours for transactions to confirm? 3... I could go on. My general problem with cryptocurrency "use cases" are they tend to assume the utility of cryptocurrency, ignore alternative solutions, and latch on to some narrow aspect of a situation when zooming out even a little would reveal contradictions and problems.
- atchoo 5y ago
  It's probably more accurate to say that it's creating a political problem by circumventing existing political solutions like sanctions, currency controls and law enforcement.
reedjosh 5y ago
Politically working in sound money (no printer go brrrr) is governmentally forbidden. Bitcoin subverted the corrupt political process and has brought that choice back.
- scottLobster 5y ago
  Bitcoin will only be "sound money" when I can pay my taxes in it. Or at least pay for my oil change. Sure it's artificially limited in quantity. Great! Doesn't make it money. It's a commodity like any other.
  - reedjosh 5y ago
    If the government told you you're not a person, would that hold? To me you're saying nothing's money unless the government says it is. In my community there's a whole ecosystem of people trading goods and services in Bitcoin, silver, and Monero.
    - scottLobster 5y ago
      > If the government told you you're not a person, would that hold? Governments have always had the ability to dictate who is a citizen and who isn't. Someone born in Angola is not protected by or subject to the US Constitution. > To me your saying nothing's money unless the government says it is. Now you're learning! Granted in a democracy the people have a say in what governments do, so if you convince enough people that using bitcoin as a medium of exchange is a good idea then it may eventually be so. Good luck! Here's what happens right now if you try to pay your taxes in Bitcoin and refuse to convert to dollars: 1. The IRS warns you and charges you back-taxes for the delay 2. If you still refuse to pay after a certain period of time, they audit you and garnish any accounts they have access to until your taxes/back taxes are paid 3. If you have no IRS-accessible accounts, men with guns show up and seize your property, including but not limited to your Bitcoin, to make up the difference. And for extra points you may get charged with Tax Evasion, which can send you to jail. This entire process may take decades, but it happens. Sounds like pretty crappy money to me if that's the result of trying to use it at any significant scale. > In my community there's a whole ecosystem of people trading goods and services in Bitcoin, silver, and Monero. Great. You and I could also arrange to barter bars of extruded aluminum for goods and services. That doesn't make extruded aluminum money, or at least not "sound money". Note however that in the US those transactions are taxed just like any other, with the amount of tax determined by their value IN DOLLARS. If you're not reporting those transactions you're theoretically subject to the previously mentioned series of events. Now the IRS can't see literally everything, so you can get away with it to a point. But if Bitcoin/crypto eventually reached the scale where a significant number of economic transactions are transacted in it, one of two things will happen: 1. Enough voters/lobbyists will be convinced of its viability that political changes are made to accept it as currency (unlikely, given the traits of bitcoin) 2. An epic tax-evasion crackdown that will make the conviction of Al Capone look like a Cub Scout picnic.
Mindwipe 5y ago
> Technology does not solve political problems. Politics solves political problems. I don't think this is true, bluntly. Technology does not automatically solve political problems. But technology does sometimes render bad political actions unviable. I would argue that a large part of the widespead acceptance of homosexuality in Western society was due to the deconstruction of singular media gatekeepers by the move of discourse from newspapers to the internet. That is absolutely technology solving a political problem.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > technology does sometimes render bad political actions unviable Put another way, technology allows groups to organize who otherwise wouldn't have been able to. In Bitcoin's case, it's largely libertarians.
- rendaw 5y ago
  And there's also plenty of political problems politics have failed to solve. Like getting rid of Confederate statues (they're not being put back up), which were eventually removed via vandalism.
- alienthrowaway 5y ago
  > I would argue that a large part of the widespead acceptance of homosexuality in Western society was due to the deconstruction of singular media gatekeepers And yet folk from my (mostly homophobic) part of the third world argue the opposite: that homosexuality is widely accepted in the west because it was promoted by media and entertainment gatekeepers. I disagree with them (and with you) - I think sexual liberation was an idea whose time had come; and the progress can be plotted to the 60s and beyond (maybe even as far back as WWII, when women were economically empowered); preceding even ARPANET.

eimrine 5y ago

> Technology does not solve political problems. Bitcoin has solved an international transaction of money which were political problem.

tablespoon 5y ago
> Bitcoin has solved an international transaction of money which were political problem. That is a problem that was already solved. I've personally bought things from foreign countries (in person, and via mail order) with a credit card.
- eimrine 5y ago
  Try to buy something from not-so-friendly urisdiction. And you will see the difference between storytelling and business.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    >> That is a problem that was already solved. I've personally bought things from foreign countries (in person, and via mail order) with a credit card. > Try to buy something from not-so-friendly urisdiction. And you will see the difference between storytelling and business. Give an actual example, rather than a vague hand-waving hypothetical. Some random points: 1. For mail order: paying is only part of it. Shipping is just as important. Are you hypothesizing a "not-so-friendly [j]urisdiction" where international payment difficult but international mail is easy? 2. For in person: would the person prefer my crisp American dollars or dicking around with Bitcoin addresses and waiting hours for transactions to confirm? 3... I could go on. My general problem with cryptocurrency "use cases" are they tend to assume the utility of cryptocurrency, ignore alternative solutions, and latch on to some narrow aspect of a situation when zooming out even a little would reveal contradictions and problems.
atchoo 5y ago
It's probably more accurate to say that it's creating a political problem by circumventing existing political solutions like sanctions, currency controls and law enforcement.

reedjosh 5y ago

Politically working in sound money (no printer go brrrr) is governmentally forbidden. Bitcoin subverted the corrupt political process and has brought that choice back.

scottLobster 5y ago
Bitcoin will only be "sound money" when I can pay my taxes in it. Or at least pay for my oil change. Sure it's artificially limited in quantity. Great! Doesn't make it money. It's a commodity like any other.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  If the government told you you're not a person, would that hold? To me you're saying nothing's money unless the government says it is. In my community there's a whole ecosystem of people trading goods and services in Bitcoin, silver, and Monero.
  - scottLobster 5y ago
    > If the government told you you're not a person, would that hold? Governments have always had the ability to dictate who is a citizen and who isn't. Someone born in Angola is not protected by or subject to the US Constitution. > To me your saying nothing's money unless the government says it is. Now you're learning! Granted in a democracy the people have a say in what governments do, so if you convince enough people that using bitcoin as a medium of exchange is a good idea then it may eventually be so. Good luck! Here's what happens right now if you try to pay your taxes in Bitcoin and refuse to convert to dollars: 1. The IRS warns you and charges you back-taxes for the delay 2. If you still refuse to pay after a certain period of time, they audit you and garnish any accounts they have access to until your taxes/back taxes are paid 3. If you have no IRS-accessible accounts, men with guns show up and seize your property, including but not limited to your Bitcoin, to make up the difference. And for extra points you may get charged with Tax Evasion, which can send you to jail. This entire process may take decades, but it happens. Sounds like pretty crappy money to me if that's the result of trying to use it at any significant scale. > In my community there's a whole ecosystem of people trading goods and services in Bitcoin, silver, and Monero. Great. You and I could also arrange to barter bars of extruded aluminum for goods and services. That doesn't make extruded aluminum money, or at least not "sound money". Note however that in the US those transactions are taxed just like any other, with the amount of tax determined by their value IN DOLLARS. If you're not reporting those transactions you're theoretically subject to the previously mentioned series of events. Now the IRS can't see literally everything, so you can get away with it to a point. But if Bitcoin/crypto eventually reached the scale where a significant number of economic transactions are transacted in it, one of two things will happen: 1. Enough voters/lobbyists will be convinced of its viability that political changes are made to accept it as currency (unlikely, given the traits of bitcoin) 2. An epic tax-evasion crackdown that will make the conviction of Al Capone look like a Cub Scout picnic.

Mindwipe 5y ago

> Technology does not solve political problems. Politics solves political problems. I don't think this is true, bluntly. Technology does not automatically solve political problems. But technology does sometimes render bad political actions unviable. I would argue that a large part of the widespead acceptance of homosexuality in Western society was due to the deconstruction of singular media gatekeepers by the move of discourse from newspapers to the internet. That is absolutely technology solving a political problem.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> technology does sometimes render bad political actions unviable Put another way, technology allows groups to organize who otherwise wouldn't have been able to. In Bitcoin's case, it's largely libertarians.
rendaw 5y ago
And there's also plenty of political problems politics have failed to solve. Like getting rid of Confederate statues (they're not being put back up), which were eventually removed via vandalism.
alienthrowaway 5y ago
> I would argue that a large part of the widespead acceptance of homosexuality in Western society was due to the deconstruction of singular media gatekeepers And yet folk from my (mostly homophobic) part of the third world argue the opposite: that homosexuality is widely accepted in the west because it was promoted by media and entertainment gatekeepers. I disagree with them (and with you) - I think sexual liberation was an idea whose time had come; and the progress can be plotted to the 60s and beyond (maybe even as far back as WWII, when women were economically empowered); preceding even ARPANET.