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Motivation is important for your work. I would not be motivated by using some closed source, walled garden product from a company with business practices I don'

Motivation is important for your work. I would not be motivated by using some closed source, walled garden product from a company with business practices I don't like. Linux is absolutely good enough to get most development work done without issue. Even if Macs might be a slightly smoother experience in some areas. I used to spend a lot of time to fiddle with Linux and my desktop in the past. You can do that if you want. But it's not necessary. Nowadays in 98% of the cases I say "good enough", in rare exceptions I might still use my freedom to fiddle and patch.

icharters 5y ago
As a professional software engineer I choose to use the best tools for the job. In my case that tool happens to be a a Mac.
- usr1106 5y ago
  Elsewhere in the comments there is a message saying that containers are constant headache under MacOS. Not having used it I can't comment. But containers are a regular part of my work. We have them in production and additionally I use them because I cannot install every required tool / environment to my machine at the same time. In that light the position of the best tool for the job doesn't sound to be undisputed.
  - icharters 5y ago
    I have several Docker containers running at any given time with no issues.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      I can get Docker working on Mac too, but honestly its much easier and faster on Linux. Might even be better on Windows, too.
  - horsawlarway 5y ago
    icharters is a victim of apple's marketing. Apple makes decent laptops, and the new m1 machines are not a bad pick. They are absolutely not the best tool for the job unless that job is developing iOS apps.
    - icharters 5y ago
- horsawlarway 5y ago
  Yup - the tool that will randomly prevent you from opening any 3rd party app if Apple's signature checking service goes down. The tool that defaults to a case insensitive but confusingly case preserving fs. The tool that has been issued in variations that literally can't be used while closed, or if you plug the charging cable into the wrong "all the same" usb-c port. The tool that licenses away virtualization, making development slower and harder, in an attempt to force companies to buy them. The tool that used have a nice little $500 dollar surcharge if you want to put an extra 8gb of ram in it. (Don't worry - it's only $800 to go from 16gb to 32gb today - much better...) That tool? That's the best tool for your use-case? Guess you must develop iOS apps, because otherwise... ooof.
  - Kudos 5y ago
    I'm a Linux user who previously used Macs for years. This list barely touches the actual reality of developing on a Mac for most people. It is not nearly as strong an argument as the arrogant tone suggests.
    - horsawlarway 5y ago
      Hey - Fellow linux user here, I get issued a macbook by work because I touch mobile related code. I can tell you - I'll take win10 over macOS any fucking day. This list is literally just the most obnoxious fraction of items that have impacted me over the last 5 years of use. I can absolutely keep going. You want me to discuss the rapid phase out of kernel extensions that allowed VMs to operate well? Or the minor annoyance that is allowing execution for every fucking brew installed tool, since macOS blocks it by default. Or should I look at the random 2 hour update times, where the computer is completely unusable? Or the utterly insane memory usage when running even a small scattering of containers? 4 fairly simple containers will eat 10gbs of ram running a mid sized RoR app, elastic, and a db. Or how about the xcode install times required to use simple tooling, like git, because "muh system integrity protection!!!" - but don't worry, at least you can get away with "just the command line" version of the tooling, which only eats a few gbs, instead of the fucking 40gb that xcode proper wants.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
ezfe 5y ago
>I would not be motivated by using some closed source, walled garden product from a company with business practices I don't like. Most of the Development flow (and even most of the non-dev flow) happens in Open Source areas: - Safari - Apps you download, like VSCode - Command line tools The areas that aren't open source (The Calendar app, file browser) can be replaced as you choose. I won't tell you to use a Mac, I just want to make it clear that the areas a developer works in are open. And, for anyone worried about things like SIP, that has a fully functional off switch Oh, and you can run Linux (albeit with some work-in-progress features) - I've done it myself.
- Flankk 5y ago
  That's a bit of a ridiculous argument. Xcode is not only closed source, it is required for publishing to the App Store. You can't modify the hardware or the software. It's a virtual prison.
  - ezfe 5y ago
    Well, Xcode only needs to be used if you're publishing to the App Store, which you wouldn't do with a linux machine anyways so that's a moot point when comparing them...
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > You can't modify the hardware or the software. It’s a tool to get a job done - I don’t need to modify it.
    - akho 5y ago
      I don’t know what kind of tool users you hang around, but there isn’t a profession that doesn’t modify or customize their tools (through making jigs, combining pieces from different toolkits, outright rebuilding, making your own tools, …).
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        That’s the great thing about software - it’s already able to do whatever I need.

icharters 5y ago

As a professional software engineer I choose to use the best tools for the job. In my case that tool happens to be a a Mac.

usr1106 5y ago
Elsewhere in the comments there is a message saying that containers are constant headache under MacOS. Not having used it I can't comment. But containers are a regular part of my work. We have them in production and additionally I use them because I cannot install every required tool / environment to my machine at the same time. In that light the position of the best tool for the job doesn't sound to be undisputed.
- icharters 5y ago
  I have several Docker containers running at any given time with no issues.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I can get Docker working on Mac too, but honestly its much easier and faster on Linux. Might even be better on Windows, too.
- horsawlarway 5y ago
  icharters is a victim of apple's marketing. Apple makes decent laptops, and the new m1 machines are not a bad pick. They are absolutely not the best tool for the job unless that job is developing iOS apps.
  - icharters 5y ago
horsawlarway 5y ago
Yup - the tool that will randomly prevent you from opening any 3rd party app if Apple's signature checking service goes down. The tool that defaults to a case insensitive but confusingly case preserving fs. The tool that has been issued in variations that literally can't be used while closed, or if you plug the charging cable into the wrong "all the same" usb-c port. The tool that licenses away virtualization, making development slower and harder, in an attempt to force companies to buy them. The tool that used have a nice little $500 dollar surcharge if you want to put an extra 8gb of ram in it. (Don't worry - it's only $800 to go from 16gb to 32gb today - much better...) That tool? That's the best tool for your use-case? Guess you must develop iOS apps, because otherwise... ooof.
- Kudos 5y ago
  I'm a Linux user who previously used Macs for years. This list barely touches the actual reality of developing on a Mac for most people. It is not nearly as strong an argument as the arrogant tone suggests.
  - horsawlarway 5y ago
    Hey - Fellow linux user here, I get issued a macbook by work because I touch mobile related code. I can tell you - I'll take win10 over macOS any fucking day. This list is literally just the most obnoxious fraction of items that have impacted me over the last 5 years of use. I can absolutely keep going. You want me to discuss the rapid phase out of kernel extensions that allowed VMs to operate well? Or the minor annoyance that is allowing execution for every fucking brew installed tool, since macOS blocks it by default. Or should I look at the random 2 hour update times, where the computer is completely unusable? Or the utterly insane memory usage when running even a small scattering of containers? 4 fairly simple containers will eat 10gbs of ram running a mid sized RoR app, elastic, and a db. Or how about the xcode install times required to use simple tooling, like git, because "muh system integrity protection!!!" - but don't worry, at least you can get away with "just the command line" version of the tooling, which only eats a few gbs, instead of the fucking 40gb that xcode proper wants.
- mdp2021 5y ago

ezfe 5y ago

>I would not be motivated by using some closed source, walled garden product from a company with business practices I don't like. Most of the Development flow (and even most of the non-dev flow) happens in Open Source areas: - Safari - Apps you download, like VSCode - Command line tools The areas that aren't open source (The Calendar app, file browser) can be replaced as you choose. I won't tell you to use a Mac, I just want to make it clear that the areas a developer works in are open. And, for anyone worried about things like SIP, that has a fully functional off switch Oh, and you can run Linux (albeit with some work-in-progress features) - I've done it myself.

Flankk 5y ago
That's a bit of a ridiculous argument. Xcode is not only closed source, it is required for publishing to the App Store. You can't modify the hardware or the software. It's a virtual prison.
- ezfe 5y ago
  Well, Xcode only needs to be used if you're publishing to the App Store, which you wouldn't do with a linux machine anyways so that's a moot point when comparing them...
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > You can't modify the hardware or the software. It’s a tool to get a job done - I don’t need to modify it.
  - akho 5y ago
    I don’t know what kind of tool users you hang around, but there isn’t a profession that doesn’t modify or customize their tools (through making jigs, combining pieces from different toolkits, outright rebuilding, making your own tools, …).
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      That’s the great thing about software - it’s already able to do whatever I need.