4 ms·

Isn't that just clinging to the old advice without evidence? This study shows it has no effect. A lesser restriction would logically also have no effect. Let's

Isn't that just clinging to the old advice without evidence? This study shows it has no effect. A lesser restriction would logically also have no effect. Let's give up on the old urban legend that salt has f-all to do with heart health.

Ensorceled 5y ago
> A lesser restriction would logically also have no effect. How can you "logically" come to that conclusion?
taylodl 5y ago
Salt raises blood pressure. That's just simple chemistry. High blood pressure causes all sorts of problems. That's medicine.
- bluGill 5y ago
  > Salt raises blood pressure Which is why your body has means to get rid of salt. > That's just simple chemistry sure, but biology is what we are talking about here, and biology is more complex.
- electrondood 5y ago
  The ratio of sodium to potassium is what matters for blood pressure, not sodium intake.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Eating a lot of salt raises it a point or two for an hour or so. Let's get our 'simple chemistry' right.
- ek750 5y ago
  I feel that this sort of simplification is common to our mis-understanding of health and nutrition. I also heard similar myths like: Calories in = Calories out, you are what you eat (meaning if you eat high fat you'll gain fat), etc. Can you explain why you think salt raises blood pressure?
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    It's a very well understood effect -- as your body absorbs salt, it also retains more water to maintain osmotic pressure. This additional fluid in your circulatory system necessarily causes your blood pressure to increase. That's the very simple chemistry behind salt increasing blood pressure. The biology is more complex and the effect isn't necessarily long lasting or linear, but there is indeed a direct relationship between sodium intake -> blood pressure.
    - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
      It would seem to make sense, until biology gets in the way. Mammals have several exquisite mechanisms for regulating sodium. Unless you're very sick, they work fine. So there is no 'direct' relationship at all.
    - taylodl 5y ago
      It should also be noted this is a study evaluating a reduced sodium diet (standard treatment for those having heart failure) vs. an even further reduced sodium diet. Further reduction yielded little difference in results. That is to say reducing your intake below 1,500 mg per day doesn't present any net benefits. The study should not be interpreted as salt intake has no effect whatsoever on your blood pressure.
- imtringued 5y ago
  The problem with this is the assumption that dietary sodium is bad. People had this weird rage boner against cholesterol. Cholesterol in the blood is bad. So cholesterol in food must be bad too. This is based on the ridiculous assumption that your body just dumps the cholesterol in your body with no processing or regulation of cholesterol in the blood. Suddenly, there is this relevation that cholesterol in eggs is no longer harmful and you can eat as many eggs as you want. In fact, science has progressed so far that total cholesterol levels predict nothing if you adjust for oxidized cholesterol. If you are in a hurry to oxidize your cholesterol just smoke cigarettes or eat heat processed fats/transfats. The saturated fat scare also feels completely pointless. Saturated fats are solid at room temperature and they are harder to oxidize which means all the supposed harmful effects are overshadowed by the fact that they extend your lifespan. People care about avoiding specific causes of death but if your cells simply get damaged slower because they are less reactive? Nobody gives a damn. How far away are we from reaching that understanding for salt?
- rhinoceraptor 5y ago
  You do know we have kidneys, right? They are amazing organs, they conserve the 0.9% salinity of your blood, roughly 40 grams in total. When you take in too much, the kidneys simply excrete it in urine. When you take in too little, they hold on to as much as they can.
- carlmr 5y ago
  Salt without water would do that. But what if you drink water with salt and thus increase your sodium without increasing the osmotic pressure? So can you eat a lot of salt if you drink a gallon or more of water with it?
mannykannot 5y ago
It seems the control group was following the current advice while the experimental group went beyond it, which would mean this study has nothing to say about the efficacy of the former.

Ensorceled 5y ago

> A lesser restriction would logically also have no effect. How can you "logically" come to that conclusion?

taylodl 5y ago

Salt raises blood pressure. That's just simple chemistry. High blood pressure causes all sorts of problems. That's medicine.

bluGill 5y ago
> Salt raises blood pressure Which is why your body has means to get rid of salt. > That's just simple chemistry sure, but biology is what we are talking about here, and biology is more complex.
electrondood 5y ago
The ratio of sodium to potassium is what matters for blood pressure, not sodium intake.
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Eating a lot of salt raises it a point or two for an hour or so. Let's get our 'simple chemistry' right.
ek750 5y ago
I feel that this sort of simplification is common to our mis-understanding of health and nutrition. I also heard similar myths like: Calories in = Calories out, you are what you eat (meaning if you eat high fat you'll gain fat), etc. Can you explain why you think salt raises blood pressure?
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  It's a very well understood effect -- as your body absorbs salt, it also retains more water to maintain osmotic pressure. This additional fluid in your circulatory system necessarily causes your blood pressure to increase. That's the very simple chemistry behind salt increasing blood pressure. The biology is more complex and the effect isn't necessarily long lasting or linear, but there is indeed a direct relationship between sodium intake -> blood pressure.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    It would seem to make sense, until biology gets in the way. Mammals have several exquisite mechanisms for regulating sodium. Unless you're very sick, they work fine. So there is no 'direct' relationship at all.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    It should also be noted this is a study evaluating a reduced sodium diet (standard treatment for those having heart failure) vs. an even further reduced sodium diet. Further reduction yielded little difference in results. That is to say reducing your intake below 1,500 mg per day doesn't present any net benefits. The study should not be interpreted as salt intake has no effect whatsoever on your blood pressure.
imtringued 5y ago
The problem with this is the assumption that dietary sodium is bad. People had this weird rage boner against cholesterol. Cholesterol in the blood is bad. So cholesterol in food must be bad too. This is based on the ridiculous assumption that your body just dumps the cholesterol in your body with no processing or regulation of cholesterol in the blood. Suddenly, there is this relevation that cholesterol in eggs is no longer harmful and you can eat as many eggs as you want. In fact, science has progressed so far that total cholesterol levels predict nothing if you adjust for oxidized cholesterol. If you are in a hurry to oxidize your cholesterol just smoke cigarettes or eat heat processed fats/transfats. The saturated fat scare also feels completely pointless. Saturated fats are solid at room temperature and they are harder to oxidize which means all the supposed harmful effects are overshadowed by the fact that they extend your lifespan. People care about avoiding specific causes of death but if your cells simply get damaged slower because they are less reactive? Nobody gives a damn. How far away are we from reaching that understanding for salt?
rhinoceraptor 5y ago
You do know we have kidneys, right? They are amazing organs, they conserve the 0.9% salinity of your blood, roughly 40 grams in total. When you take in too much, the kidneys simply excrete it in urine. When you take in too little, they hold on to as much as they can.
carlmr 5y ago
Salt without water would do that. But what if you drink water with salt and thus increase your sodium without increasing the osmotic pressure? So can you eat a lot of salt if you drink a gallon or more of water with it?

mannykannot 5y ago

It seems the control group was following the current advice while the experimental group went beyond it, which would mean this study has nothing to say about the efficacy of the former.