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Choosing Ubuntu Fully Compatible Laptop Is Easier Now
- ericb 15y agoDoes ubuntu, with 11.10, for any of these models, detect external displays automatically? Is this a feature that is just not in the current ubuntu, or something particular to 10.10 and my Dell?
- kisielk 15y agoIt seems to automatically detect an external display on my HP Mini as of 11.04 (maybe sooner, didn't try). I can even switch between the displays using the dedicated key on the keyboard.
- sp332 15y agoIt has "support" for this, unfortunately support varies depending on your driver. e.g. Nvidia Quadro: http://www.brighthub.com/computing/linux/articles/31614/p2/ http://www.brighthub.com/computing/linux/articles/31614/p2/ and some Radeons: http://niccolofavari.com/ubuntu-10.04-lucid-issues-with-external-monitor-and-ati-radeon-card http://niccolofavari.com/ubuntu-10.04-lucid-issues-with-exte... and so on.
- munin 15y agonotice how many specify "32 bit". this is a joke for engineering laptops that need more RAM. I have a T510, which is listed. it definitely doesn't work out of the box, and not all of the hardware (nvidia optimus for example) is fully supported.
- samstokes 15y agoWhat problems have you had with your T510? I have the T510 running 64-bit Ubuntu - it worked fine out of the box. I think the only thing I had to tweak was the auto-idle-brightness-reduction. Even dual monitor has worked just fine. Admittedly this is 10.04 - I haven't tried the newer versions on it yet - and I didn't try to get Optimus working. I do wonder why they're so careful about specifying 32-bit - I guess driver availability. Hopefully this shows Canonical and/or the laptop makers themselves are putting a higher priority on compatibility, so maybe 64-bit support won't be far off.
- munin 15y agodual monitors where both monitors are the DVI docking station? fine dual monitors where one is the onboard LCD and the other is a monitor connected via the VGA port? fine three monitors, where one of them is the onboard LCD and the other two come from the DVI ports? nope! (this works in windows). going from windows to ubuntu, there are three big things that i ran into: no 3 monitor support, less battery life, and wifi issues (google for ubuntu iwlagn, all kinds of awesome ways to get it work like iwconfig wlan0 mode 1M, welcome to 2001, and turning off g/n support) also, suspend/resume has a 1/10 chance of not resuming. this is worse than window's 0/10 chances of not resuming (every. time. i pulled my windows T510 out of my bag and opened it, it was there. with linux? i cross my fingers)
- samstokes 15y ago(Not trying to dispute your experience, just presenting my own for balance, for the benefit of anyone trying to decide whether Ubuntu on a Thinkpad is viable.) * Triple monitor: like you, I couldn't get this to work. * Battery life: it's not been as good as in Windows, but it's been very acceptable if I tweak a bit using powertop. (Of course, I'd like it to be as good as in Windows.) * Wifi: I have had no issues whatsoever; this worked perfectly out of the box, even with WPA, G/N, etc. * suspend/resume: I've never had a problem with resume. About 1 time in 100 it will fail to suspend (which is just as bad, since I have to hard reboot to turn it off). It's been nowhere near 1 in 10 for me though. Easily reliable enough for me to not worry about.
- Symmetry 15y agoHow well wifi works depends on if you stick with the default "Thinkpad wireless" or you pay a bit extra for the Intel wireless stuff. Its well worth the extra $20 in terms of the Linux drivers being much better for the later, if nothing else.
- samstokes 15y agoYes, my memory is a bit hazy but I think I had read (and followed) that advice when I bought my T510.
- spinlock 15y agoThat sucks. Is the T510 a 64 bit system? I don't think Linux is quite there on 64bit (although I haven't tried it myself yet).
- munin 15y agoall intel x64 systems are capable of being 32 bit. also almost all non-netbook laptops are x64 systems now (and have been for many years). however, if you run 32 bit, you can address less RAM. so. have fun! :(
- SaltwaterC 15y agoYou can address up to 64 GiB of RAM with a PAE kernel. Happens that a single process can't access more than 4 GiB of RAM. But in the end, how many people actually run a process that large on a notebook?
- munin 15y ago> how many people actually run a process that large on a notebook? my primary computer is a notebook and I routinely run processes that large (vmware, mathematica, matlab, IDA, binnavi, my own programs, etc). "why do you run these programs on your laptop instead of sshing to a server somewhere?" sensitivity, responsiveness, I don't always have internet, the hardware can do it (8-16GB of RAM in a notebook is almost commonplace)
- gbrindisi 15y agoWhat laptop are you using which supports 16gb of RAM? I'd love a portable computing juggernaut!
- whatusername 15y agoThinkpad w510. I think some of the Mac laptops might. I'm sure some other systems support it.
- schwuk 15y agoWe have a very large number of systems to test, and it is not feasible to test every system with both 32-bit & 64-bit. There are also requirements from the manufacturers to consider. (Please note, I don't perform the testing, so my knowledge is second hand.) Personally, I'd rather see lots of 32-bit systems than a handful of 64-bit. :)
- wmf 15y agoWhy not test 64-bit first and only try 32-bit if it fails?
- schwuk 15y agoDesktops, Laptops and Netbooks are certified using the 32bit version of Ubuntu and Servers are certified using the 64bit version of Ubuntu Server Edition. This is based on the most common usage patterns we've seen. Another answer is that it would lengthen an already long process.
- GeneralMaximus 15y agoThat usage pattern only exists because 32-bit Ubuntu is selected by default and marked as "recommended" on your download page. People I know regularly download the 32-bit version even though I tell them to get the 64-bit version. Why is 64-bit not the recommended option?
- mappu 15y agoWhy should it be? PAE [1] is reported to work very well, so there's no RAM problem. Plus, things like ndiswrapper go a long way to highlighting Ubuntu's famous 'ease of use', and i imagine it's a huge hassle to get that working on x86_64. 64-bit is a higher number, but it's not instantly better in all situations. Larger pointers = effectively smaller cache, and the extra registers don't always make up for that. _________________ 1. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE
- Symmetry 15y agoYeah, they really should have specified "Not Optimus" or something under the T520. I have one also, for work, and graphics has given me no end of trouble. EDIT: Are you sure you didn't mean to type "T520"? The T510 came out before Optimus was around, accoring to my recollection and a quick check on ThinkWiki. If you click on the link under the name of the laptop they specify which hardware configuration they used, and the T520 very noticeably isn't certified for use with NVidia graphics, unlike the T510. http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7229 http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7229
- LogicHoleFlaw 15y agoI'm typing this on a T510 - it definitely has an optimus chipset. Linux support for Optimus is extremely poor, so fortunately you can set in the BIOS whether to use the integrated intel graphics chipset or the discrete nVidia chipset. The laptop works very well in Ubuntu, which is my primary OS. There definitely were some setup hassles when I got the laptop a year ago, but I believe the support is more streamlined today.
- schwuk 15y agoOne of the big issues we have (and have yet to solve) is that of SKUs - just because you have a T510' it doesn't guarantee that the components are 100% identical. Suggestions (beside testing every possible combination, which simply doesn't scale) are welcome. :)
- mquander 15y agoIt would be nice to be able to see an optional list of just what hardware is in each laptop that you tested. First benefit: The user could check that hardware against what he purchased or is purchasing and have a moderate amount of confidence that it's the "same thing" and not a SKU with something significantly different. Second benefit: If you implemented a search, someone wondering whether an unlisted laptop is OK could make a good guess by searching for the presence of tested laptops with the same sound card, graphics card, etc.
- schwuk 15y agoWe do that. Have you drilled down into the individual listings? I'm currently working on displaying the 'core' (processor, network, display) components in the main listings to a) help differentiate between SKUs and b) stop you having to view each model to find the one you're interested in.
- mquander 15y agoI did not drill down into the individual listing. Now I know! Cool.
- masklinn 15y ago> not all of the hardware (nvidia optimus for example) is fully supported. As far as I know, Optimus is pretty much solely a drivers feature.
- starwed 15y agoThe optimus thing is annoying -- that specifically prevented me from buying an optimus equipped laptop when they came out. (IIRC nvidia gave no help at all to those attempting to provide linux drivers.)
- dgudkov 15y agoUbuntu crashes on my T420 during installation despite T420 is listed there.
- schwuk 15y agoAll systems are tested from a fresh install, therefore the installation is part of the certified status. Also see my comment about SKUs: a single model name can cover a multitude of incompatibilities. Anecdotally, I've managed to crash my MacBook while installing OS X.
- samstokes 15y agoThis is a wonderful move. This would have saved me so much time if it had been around a year or so ago when I was shopping for a new laptop. (I went with the Thinkpad T510, which has worked flawlessly.)
- schwuk 15y agoThat's the whole idea of the listings. :)
- spinlock 15y agoThis is just what I was looking for. I was thinking about building an alienware laptop and duel booting to Ubuntu. My big issue was I didn't know where the problems were going to come in. Thanks!
- schwuk 15y agoWithin those listings is the Component Catalog that lets you search for individual components (contained within the certified systems). There's no guarantee that individual components will work together, but it's better than not knowing at all.
- buster 15y agoA shame that Sony is not listed.. hopefully this page motivates Sony to certify them :)
- spinlock 15y agoYeah. I like the look of the Vaio line a lot but I really want a machine that will run linux well. Ubuntu seems like it would be the best distro for a vendor to partner with.
- buster 15y agoI have Vaios since quite a few years and they generally worked. Only thing i wished that would work is the graphics switch from integrated graphics to seperate one... Despite a netbook with the horrible GMA500 graphics (stay away from that crap as far as possible!).
- schwuk 15y agoUbuntu-certified means that we (Canonical) have an agreement in place with the manufacturer to certify specific models. We're hoping that the crowd sourced results on http://friendly.ubuntu.com http://friendly.ubuntu.com will help more motivate manufacturers too.
- antirez 15y agowhat should be done instead is a fork of Ubuntu designed to run well in the best laptop hardware out there: macbooks.
- samstokes 15y agoI'm not sure a fork is needed - I think as ever it's a question of drivers. The existence of this page suggests that the listed PC manufacturers are at least to some extent cooperating, or even helping, with getting Ubuntu working on their hardware. Sadly, I can't see Apple taking the same attitude :( Are there any Linux fans inside Apple with 20% time?
- antirez 15y agoYep I mean to provide a zero-problems experience. Just put a CD inside and everything will work. Possibly with a selection of pre-installed beautiful open source software. So an "apple alike" experience for Linux users.
- sciurus 15y agoThat sounds like how the current Ubuntu CD works on almost all hardware.
- antirez 15y agoI needed 12 years of using only Linux to finally don't trust sentences like this without any need for debates or arguments. (I'm only using osx even if I would switch for ethical issues, but there is nothing similar IMHO). EDIT: also even after the 12 years two years ago I tried again with a macbook, with very poor results.
- sciurus 15y agoI've been involved with around 1,500 Ubuntu installs over the last four years at http://www.freeitathens.org http://www.freeitathens.org. It's rare for us to image a computer and not have everything just work. We're usually working on three to ten year old computers. If we saw more new computers, perhaps I'd be more pessimistic about linux support.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- schwuk 15y agoI'm the maintainer of the application that provides these listings, and it's great to see them featured on HN. I'll try and reply to some of the comments, but feel free to ask any other questions.
- va_coder 15y agoThanks
- davidw 15y agoYears ago, I ran a "Linux Incompatibility List". You might consider the idea of something similar - a list of things to avoid because they're guaranteed not to work with Linux.
- wmf 15y agoDo you consider a Broadcom 802.11n radio "compatible" even when Linux runs it in g mode?
- reustle 15y agoIt's showing my laptop (Lenovo x120e) on this list, but my laptop has known issues with the current wifi drivers which causes kernel panics.
- schwuk 15y agoThere is an X100e and X121e listed, but no X120e. I've seen enough hardware listings to know that there's no guarantee of equivalence between models.
- ajross 15y agoNot even between devices with exactly the same model numbers. I've seen batches of "identical" laptops arrive from the factory with a mix of Broadcom and Atheros wifi, for instance.
- schwuk 15y agoYes. Device substitutions are hard enough, but device revisions add another layer of complexity.
- reustle 15y agoIt shows x120e right under the x1, no?
- schwuk 15y agoNo. X1, X121e, X201. http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Lenovo/laptops http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Lenovo/laptops
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- puredemo 15y agoHopefully we'll see some ultrabooks on here in the upcoming months.
- thepointyhat 15y agoWell that's a load of arse. The Lenovo X201 sucks - it crashes all over the place on Ubuntu 11.04 32-bit and it's certified! http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7305 http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7305
- lallysingh 15y agoBullshit. They're listing "Preinstall only" for quite a few machines (including the Lenovo W520, which I just bought), but the "preinstall" image isn't available. In the US, you can only choose windows as your OS. You can't get the compatibility-tested version of ubuntu anywhere on that page, or anywhere else I've looked. Rather tragic for an open-source operating system. Note: I didn't look too far, I just installed arch instead.
- schwuk 15y agoWhere can I find a Pre-install/Manufacturer image: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+faq/1523 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+faq/1523 Why can't I buy a system with Ubuntu pre-installed on it?: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+faq/1717 https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+faq/1717
- lallysingh 15y ago.. and they're full of excuses. That sort of crap was why I thought Ubuntu was created. No more excuses for having to go through free & non-free repos, half-assed "it's meant for the enterprise" desktop configurations, etc. Look, if I can't get the image that they're saying is compatible, it isn't compatible for me. It's empty sales-speak and has no business in free software.
- gtani 15y agoMaybe you could list most common failing tests, let people decide what they could live without: - wifi chipset - vid cards (GPU set) - sleep/resume
- schwuk 15y agoThat's what Ubuntu Friendly (http://friendly.ubuntu.com http://friendly.ubuntu.com) does.
- bmastenbrook 15y agotl;dr: don't believe it, at least not for any recent Intel ThinkPads. I have the ThinkPad T420 with Sandy Bridge graphics that they list as "Certified" under 11.04. This is at best highly misleading. I bought this laptop under the delusion that choosing components that were supported by open source in-tree drivers written by the actual hardware vendor was the right decision to make. Alas, Natty out of the box hangs quite frequently, and X is very unstable. The DisplayPort output is unusable, and even non-DisplayPort output via an adapter didn't quite work. After quite a lot of fiddling, I've found that the latest upstream kernels (I'm using 3.1-RC9 at the moment) from the Kernel PPA mostly fix the hanging, and using KDE with the XRender compositing backend addresses the rest of the issues I have. OpenGL stability is still a disaster, but I don't really have any need it for anything. I'm not sure if native DisplayPort actually works yet; I got a small HDMI adapter to use instead. Using XFCE would probably work just as well, but don't expect stability from Compiz. Oh, and if you use dm-crypt (which you should on a laptop) you'll get a stupid error from Grub on every boot unless you uncomment GRUB_TERMINAL=console in /etc/default/grub (&& run update-grub). For reference: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/699802 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/699802
- bmastenbrook 15y agoOh, and I forgot that I had to disable powersave for the iwlagn driver in order to get any kind of performance out of it. I'm using the Intel 6300AGN; I tried to buy a 6200AGN from Amazon to try it out but Lenovo locks their BIOS to specific PCI product IDs. If by any chance anyone else needs this, I just put a small shell script that runs "iwconfig wlan0 power off" in /etc/pm/power.d/wireless . The name is important because it overrides another script elsewhere with the same name. There are probably other things I configured or changed that I can't recall right now. I need Linux to get my job done, but I'd be using VMware under Windows if I could get away with it. (For various hardware-development reasons I can't.) It really wasn't worth my time to figure all this out.
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- moondowner 15y agoNote that there are other fully compatible laptops - but aren't listed due to not taking the Ubuntu certification. For example, there is only one HP laptop there, and It's more than obvious that there are lot more HP laptops which run the default Ubuntu installation without problems.
- schwuk 15y agoAbsolutely. Certified means we've got an agreement in place with the manufacturer to test specific models. For everything else, we're started Ubuntu Friendly: http://friendly.ubuntu.com http://friendly.ubuntu.com
- zacharysjoden 15y agoHaven't tried them(yet), but http://www.system76.com http://www.system76.com looks promissing for fully Linux compatible computers, including laptops.