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I genuinely don't know since most of my knowledge of NFT stuff comes from people commenting it vs. primary sources, but are there very active markets for NFTs i

I genuinely don't know since most of my knowledge of NFT stuff comes from people commenting it vs. primary sources, but are there very active markets for NFTs in general beyond initial offerings? Like is there an active, healthy and functioning market for BAYC, or was it more about an initial rush and now a bunch of people have tokens that have value on paper but no market to realistically sell them?

adoxyz 5y ago
I would safely assume the latter (minus the value bit).
gonehome 5y ago
There’s an active market, but it’s mostly winner takes all and ones that establish a brand/community (helped by the tokens gating access to merchandise or events). Also good when token includes IP. BAYC/MAYC is the biggest, milady seems to be getting traction (not sure why). These specific ones are also easy to liquidate for now because of opensea bots willing to sell ~10% below “floor” so they can flip later. I made this bet with a MAYC a while back to play with and understand what was going on (bet was MAYC price would climb because of BAYC community and future ape token). It worked out, but it can be a bit stressful for sure. The interesting bit is gated community access/easily verifiable ownership of membership. The art is a meme-ish way to signal this status, but the ability to verify easily is the new capability (urbit uses it well imo - costs can be low, but verification and non-zero cost make spam no longer economical) The Jack tweet style nft and ones like that seemed like a dumb bet to me. The value is in the community, access, or (maybe) in IP rights for a certain sports clip or something. NFTs of stuff like Jack’s tweet or a meme without IP rights have no real value beyond hype imo. This topic is also squarely in the class of things the median HN comment is dumb about so it’s rare to find info here, usually just sneering dismissals.
- nradov 5y ago
  Why would anyone want to be a member of an organization composed of people stupid enough to waste money on NFTs? That seems like something I'd want to actively avoid. Like I'd pay money to block those losers from my life.
- hammock 5y ago
  What are the best gated communities you have found?
  - gonehome 5y ago
    I’m biased because I work at Tlon, but I think using low, but non-zero cost IDs for urbit auth is a really good way to do it and makes handling spam easy. For what it’s worth, I joined Tlon because of conviction in what is being built (not the other way around). So it’s not “gated” in the sense of excluding people - it’s more about the minimum cost required to eliminate spam. It solves the issue of ID at the OS level and works well for building networked apps on top of it.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > The interesting bit is gated community access/easily verifiable ownership of membership. The art is a meme-ish way to signal this status, but the ability to verify easily is the new capability There's literally nothing new or interesting about memberships.
  - gonehome 5y ago
    The new bit is trivial public lookup and membership transfer without relying on a central data store or authority. That is a new capability and allows for new things.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      1. "Gated community" is centralized by default. 2. Literally no new thing has come out of this 3. Not to mention use cases where you wouldn't want to advertise your membership in a "gated community"
      - gonehome 5y ago
        I’m not going to argue with someone that’s just looking to win rather than actually be curious about stuff. If you’re right you can look back smugly. If you’re wrong you’ll eventually figure it out (or not), won’t matter to me. I think you’re probably wrong.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > I’m not going to argue with someone that’s just looking to win rather than actually be curious about stuff. Ah. The inevitable ad hominem argument. > I think you’re probably wrong. See, the difference between you and me lies in this "probably". You believe, with nothing to back your beliefs. I look at reality (including the reality that I worked at a company that worked with memberships, ticketing, "gated community access" etc.). And I evaluate it for what it is, not for what I believe it is.
        5y ago
- svantana 5y ago
  One would think that it's a winner-takes-all, hit-driven market. But actually, looking at the current OpenSea 30-day volumes, the collections approximate a power-law distribution with an exponent of ~0.94, i.e. slightly more long-tail than expected from Zipf's Law. Granted, e.g. Spotify streams are even more long-tail (exponent~=0.5), but still.
- WFHRenaissance 5y ago
  Chiming in RE: Milady. I’m not a “crypto” guy, and I’ve never owned any NFT aside from Milady. FYI: I own a single Milady. I think Milady is seeing its current success for a few reasons, but I think one core reason why it’s doing so well is that Milady does not exist in a vacuum as some random abstract piece of animal art without being the nexus of several subcultures. The Milady community in many ways existed prior to the existence of Milady: breakcore music, Serial Experiments Lain fans (and anime fans generally), technolibertarians and cryptoanarchists (Urbit people mainly), image edit artists, e-girls, occultists, internet catholics, fashion bugs, and more have all converged on Milady. This is due in part to a mutual attraction to the projects supposed philosophical backing (primarily texts from Angelicism01's Substack, Hiroki Azuma’s Database Animals, Remillia Corporation’s members tweets/writings), but also I think its success can largely be attributed to the fact that putting on the mask of a Milady and posting insane shit on Twitter is just a lot of fun. Having a Milady PFP is an instant ticket into a community of thousands of posters ranging from the schizo-hikikomori to family man VPs of industry. You don’t even need to own a Milady to participate, just change your PFP and you’re welcomed with open arms. The project has lead to the coining/popularization of several neologisms: hypercitationalism, network spirituality, neo-orientalism, neo-chibi, auctioncore,et cetera. There is a hunger for an artistic/theoretical avant-garde, and Milady is delivering on the promise to innovate concepts and practices.
  - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
    Miladys feel like a necessary anarchic balance to BAYC.
    - WFHRenaissance 5y ago
      I think that’s a good way to put it, but instead of BAYC I’d say almost all NFT animals
- crtasm 5y ago
  Is anyone selling NFTs for IP rights to video clips, sports or otherwise?
miracle2k 5y ago
There is no general rule for NFTs having value, much like there is an infinite amount of art that struggles to have a primary sale. BAYC has a liquid market. It does not matter how many wash trades critics imagine there are - list your BAYC at the floor today, and it will sell within a couple of hours at most. Therefore, anyone not selling isn't doing so because they lack the liquidity. They are holding for other reasons.
basisword 5y ago
You can see trading volume on OpenSea (one of the larger NFT marketplaces): https://opensea.io/collection/boredapeyachtclub?tab=activity https://opensea.io/collection/boredapeyachtclub?tab=activity How legitimate that trading is is not possible to know (e.g. people trading stuff back and forth to make it look like there is activity).
- cupofpython 5y ago
  a lot of activity is between different levels of the ponzi scheme too. Person A gets NFT for 1 ETH. They sell it to person B for 1.2 ETH Person B is able to spend 1.2 ETH because they traded 2 ETH worth of NFT to Persons C, D, E for 3.2 ETH total Persons C, D, E are yesterdays Person A etc. People are "trading up" but only because the total number of trades are increasing. Some people are probably successful in hopping into this wave, converting a profit, and hopping out.. but they are only able to do that because the majority of activity is still running the engine. Eventually the engine will run out of fuel and a lot of people will be stuck with net negative accounts I'm also 90% sure that most of the bigger players in the space are aware of this and are effectively competing to see who's left holding the bag

adoxyz 5y ago

I would safely assume the latter (minus the value bit).

gonehome 5y ago

There’s an active market, but it’s mostly winner takes all and ones that establish a brand/community (helped by the tokens gating access to merchandise or events). Also good when token includes IP. BAYC/MAYC is the biggest, milady seems to be getting traction (not sure why). These specific ones are also easy to liquidate for now because of opensea bots willing to sell ~10% below “floor” so they can flip later. I made this bet with a MAYC a while back to play with and understand what was going on (bet was MAYC price would climb because of BAYC community and future ape token). It worked out, but it can be a bit stressful for sure. The interesting bit is gated community access/easily verifiable ownership of membership. The art is a meme-ish way to signal this status, but the ability to verify easily is the new capability (urbit uses it well imo - costs can be low, but verification and non-zero cost make spam no longer economical) The Jack tweet style nft and ones like that seemed like a dumb bet to me. The value is in the community, access, or (maybe) in IP rights for a certain sports clip or something. NFTs of stuff like Jack’s tweet or a meme without IP rights have no real value beyond hype imo. This topic is also squarely in the class of things the median HN comment is dumb about so it’s rare to find info here, usually just sneering dismissals.

nradov 5y ago
Why would anyone want to be a member of an organization composed of people stupid enough to waste money on NFTs? That seems like something I'd want to actively avoid. Like I'd pay money to block those losers from my life.
hammock 5y ago
What are the best gated communities you have found?
- gonehome 5y ago
  I’m biased because I work at Tlon, but I think using low, but non-zero cost IDs for urbit auth is a really good way to do it and makes handling spam easy. For what it’s worth, I joined Tlon because of conviction in what is being built (not the other way around). So it’s not “gated” in the sense of excluding people - it’s more about the minimum cost required to eliminate spam. It solves the issue of ID at the OS level and works well for building networked apps on top of it.
dmitriid 5y ago
> The interesting bit is gated community access/easily verifiable ownership of membership. The art is a meme-ish way to signal this status, but the ability to verify easily is the new capability There's literally nothing new or interesting about memberships.
- gonehome 5y ago
  The new bit is trivial public lookup and membership transfer without relying on a central data store or authority. That is a new capability and allows for new things.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    1. "Gated community" is centralized by default. 2. Literally no new thing has come out of this 3. Not to mention use cases where you wouldn't want to advertise your membership in a "gated community"
    - gonehome 5y ago
      I’m not going to argue with someone that’s just looking to win rather than actually be curious about stuff. If you’re right you can look back smugly. If you’re wrong you’ll eventually figure it out (or not), won’t matter to me. I think you’re probably wrong.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > I’m not going to argue with someone that’s just looking to win rather than actually be curious about stuff. Ah. The inevitable ad hominem argument. > I think you’re probably wrong. See, the difference between you and me lies in this "probably". You believe, with nothing to back your beliefs. I look at reality (including the reality that I worked at a company that worked with memberships, ticketing, "gated community access" etc.). And I evaluate it for what it is, not for what I believe it is.
        5y ago
svantana 5y ago
One would think that it's a winner-takes-all, hit-driven market. But actually, looking at the current OpenSea 30-day volumes, the collections approximate a power-law distribution with an exponent of ~0.94, i.e. slightly more long-tail than expected from Zipf's Law. Granted, e.g. Spotify streams are even more long-tail (exponent~=0.5), but still.
WFHRenaissance 5y ago
Chiming in RE: Milady. I’m not a “crypto” guy, and I’ve never owned any NFT aside from Milady. FYI: I own a single Milady. I think Milady is seeing its current success for a few reasons, but I think one core reason why it’s doing so well is that Milady does not exist in a vacuum as some random abstract piece of animal art without being the nexus of several subcultures. The Milady community in many ways existed prior to the existence of Milady: breakcore music, Serial Experiments Lain fans (and anime fans generally), technolibertarians and cryptoanarchists (Urbit people mainly), image edit artists, e-girls, occultists, internet catholics, fashion bugs, and more have all converged on Milady. This is due in part to a mutual attraction to the projects supposed philosophical backing (primarily texts from Angelicism01's Substack, Hiroki Azuma’s Database Animals, Remillia Corporation’s members tweets/writings), but also I think its success can largely be attributed to the fact that putting on the mask of a Milady and posting insane shit on Twitter is just a lot of fun. Having a Milady PFP is an instant ticket into a community of thousands of posters ranging from the schizo-hikikomori to family man VPs of industry. You don’t even need to own a Milady to participate, just change your PFP and you’re welcomed with open arms. The project has lead to the coining/popularization of several neologisms: hypercitationalism, network spirituality, neo-orientalism, neo-chibi, auctioncore,et cetera. There is a hunger for an artistic/theoretical avant-garde, and Milady is delivering on the promise to innovate concepts and practices.
- TigeriusKirk 5y ago
  Miladys feel like a necessary anarchic balance to BAYC.
  - WFHRenaissance 5y ago
    I think that’s a good way to put it, but instead of BAYC I’d say almost all NFT animals
crtasm 5y ago
Is anyone selling NFTs for IP rights to video clips, sports or otherwise?

miracle2k 5y ago

There is no general rule for NFTs having value, much like there is an infinite amount of art that struggles to have a primary sale. BAYC has a liquid market. It does not matter how many wash trades critics imagine there are - list your BAYC at the floor today, and it will sell within a couple of hours at most. Therefore, anyone not selling isn't doing so because they lack the liquidity. They are holding for other reasons.

basisword 5y ago

You can see trading volume on OpenSea (one of the larger NFT marketplaces): https://opensea.io/collection/boredapeyachtclub?tab=activity https://opensea.io/collection/boredapeyachtclub?tab=activity How legitimate that trading is is not possible to know (e.g. people trading stuff back and forth to make it look like there is activity).

cupofpython 5y ago
a lot of activity is between different levels of the ponzi scheme too. Person A gets NFT for 1 ETH. They sell it to person B for 1.2 ETH Person B is able to spend 1.2 ETH because they traded 2 ETH worth of NFT to Persons C, D, E for 3.2 ETH total Persons C, D, E are yesterdays Person A etc. People are "trading up" but only because the total number of trades are increasing. Some people are probably successful in hopping into this wave, converting a profit, and hopping out.. but they are only able to do that because the majority of activity is still running the engine. Eventually the engine will run out of fuel and a lot of people will be stuck with net negative accounts I'm also 90% sure that most of the bigger players in the space are aware of this and are effectively competing to see who's left holding the bag