4 ms·

Honestly I feel like the failing is one of media literacy and critical thinking, as opposed to trust in institutions, as you propose. On the side of the media,

Honestly I feel like the failing is one of media literacy and critical thinking, as opposed to trust in institutions, as you propose. On the side of the media, it's a sortof cynical appraisal of their readers/viewers ("It's too complicated"). Take the Hunter Biden laptop thing, for example. I don't know too much about it, but my understanding is that it revealed nepotism/influence peddling, which I totally agree should be prohibited. I mean most people are in favor of preventing members of Congress from trading stocks, for example. It's something pretty much all of us can agree on. But instead of the story of the laptop being used as a jumping off point to talk about these issues, the news organizations decided to squash the story, thinking its readers/viewers were not sophisticated enough to be able to digest it, and that it would simply be used as a weapon by the Republicans (sad to say with, I agree). Personally I feel like they should have fully covered the story. I also believe that Trump would have been re-elected, and that this would have been a bad thing for the entire world. Squashing the story might have led to a short-term win, but maybe perpetuate the problem longer. I really hope things turn around. I want to have hope for the future. It's pretty hard though, I don't have much trust that we are up to the challenge.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
The laptop story was so way out there it was only fit for tabloid publication. It wasn’t squashed so much that it was the story about a blind computer repairman who thought he recognized the former Vice President’s son in Delaware who is somehow so renowned that he attracts business all the way from Los Angeles. Even the Republicans didn’t feel comfortable seriously running with it.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  I don't think anybody is claiming Hunter went all the way to Delaware to repair his laptop. The Bidens have a house in Delaware so it is reasonable to suspect that Hunter was already in the state.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    If that’s what they were going with sure. I guess it could have been any random computer repair shop in any state, but how often do you take your MacBooks to get repaired at some random place when visiting your parents, and leave them there since you live in LA anyways? On the other hand, it’s such a shoddy setup I doubt any half way decent intelligence agency would plant the laptop there. But maybe blind computer repair people just aren’t that common?
- travisathougies 4y ago
  Is it so unreasonable to believe that Hunter Biden, who grew up in Delaware and whose father has to live in delaware, since he has been the senator from delaware for almost fifty years, ended up with a laptop in need of repair in Delaware?
  - FireBeyond 4y ago
    No. It is unreasonable to think that he left it at the computer store with someone legally blind, and left no contact information. It is unreasonable to think that this legally person recognized the customer as Hunter Biden. It is unreasonable to think that Hunter Biden then completely forgot about it. And that the owner of the store, who apparently has political connections including Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani, could not figure out how to reach out to Hunter Biden. And then, three years after it had been left with him, decided to snoop on it. And then was able to reach out to Rudy Giuliani to tell him all about it. And that Rudy Giuliani was "protecting his life" from the Clinton campaign, to stop them "killing him, too" (referencing Seth Rich). And then that despite the owner of the store saying he backed up a copy of the drive, delivered it to Steve Bannon, who delivered another copy to the media... when it came time to handing over the laptop, it was put in a USPS mail envelope - no tracking, no certification, no insurance. Where it was then lost. All that? That's unreasonable.
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      You make several good points, but I'll address the few that are not very good > It is unreasonable to think that Hunter Biden then completely forgot about it. Hunter Biden is a known drug addict. It is reasonable to assume that he can forget something as crucial as his personal laptop given his history of abuse. > Where it was then lost. At this point, everyone has accepted that it is Hunter's laptop. Most people have also accepted that the contents are also genuine. It was also never contested by either Hunter or President Biden. "There could be a laptop out there that was stolen from me. It could be that I was hacked. It could be that it was the — that it was Russian intelligence." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-laptop-reports-intervention-memoir/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-laptop-reports-int... In the grand picture, the narrative of how they acquired the laptop doesn't matter, though I agree with you that it's likely from theft. It's akin to computer thieves encountering child pornography in one of their "scores". What matters more are the contents, which are disturbing. The drug abuse and sex are banal. However, the evidence of corruption is disturbing. To be fair, I'm confident both you and I can find documented instances of corruption in the Trump administration. The difference is that the mainstream media is only going to actively protect Biden during election season, which lends credence to the far right's accusation that the mainstream media is biased. https://news.yahoo.com/york-times-quietly-deletes-claim-021800355.html https://news.yahoo.com/york-times-quietly-deletes-claim-0218...
chaostheory 4y ago
You sum it up well. They win one battle at the risk of losing the entire war for public trust.
nullc 4y ago
> one of media literacy I'm not entirely sure what 'media literacy' means when you can get more accurate reporting from a late night TV comedian than from "the newspaper of record". Too many people have been shaken out of their gell-mann amnesia by experiencing some respected media outlet telling something they personally know to be a lie, or worse-- seeing the hierarchy inverted by seeing the reputable place lie while an obvious tabloid tells the truth. The laptop is a great example-- the google-sent messages to hunter pass DKIM validation: they're cryptographically signed by google, so anyone with appropriate technical skill can verify their veracity beyond reasonable dispute. But a tabloid published it and not only did the reputable places not do so, but there was widespread collusion to suppress any discussion of it. > revealed nepotism/influence peddling Well, it was strongly indicative of hunter involved in that stuff. It's a little more complicated because he's a known-and-admitted screwup. If hunter was going around selling his father's influence without his father's knowledge, that shouldn't necessarily reflect negatively on Biden Sr. The material from the laptop made available actually connecting Sr. to any of it appears to be extremely tenuous. That said, it's not an unreasonable heuristic to assume from the fact that its all been so aggressively suppressed that there is a smoking gun there, so I can't fault people for doing so. As you note, the broader issue is one that's worthwhile to discuss.
- landryraccoon 4y ago
  Can you link to the contents of the laptop? I still have never gotten a consistent answer on what exactly the laptop supposedly contains.
landryraccoon 4y ago
Can you link to the contents of the laptop? I still have never gotten a consistent answer on what exactly the laptop supposedly contains.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  It's hard to get the contents from an MSM outlet since most if not all the centrist mainstream outlets barely mention it, which makes the optics seem partisan. At best, they're just covering the controversy of their own decision to do a news blackout before the 2020 elections, barely mentioning the laptop contents. (Some people on HN may disagree, but a 2nd consecutive Trump term would have been disastrous.) Meanwhile, the overtly partisan outlets on the right give lurid details... but they're partisan which also makes the optics look bad. However, given the recent news articles they've also been vindicated, especially the NY Post. This is probably the best, seemingly non-partisan summary of the contents. (It's still partisan because it's so vague, when it doesn't need to be.) "The Post and other conservative media outlets’ coverage of Hunter’s files partly involved lurid material about Hunter’s personal life. Hunter’s struggles with drug addiction were already a matter of public record, but the files contained further embarrassing details, as well as sexual material. The other focus of coverage was Hunter’s lucrative foreign work, most notably with a Ukrainian gas company and Chinese business interests. Trump allies had long claimed this work proved not just Hunter’s but Joe Biden’s corruption, and they combed through Hunter’s emails to try to make that case." https://www.vox.com/22992772/hunter-biden-laptop https://www.vox.com/22992772/hunter-biden-laptop Here's another mainstream instance of late coverage One infamous email purportedly detailed a business arrangement between a Chinese company and the Biden family. Tony Bobulinski, who is listed as a recipient of the email first published by the New York Post, offered further detail last year in a statement to Fox News on the correspondence in October 2020, which references a proposed equity split: “20” for “H” and “10 held by H for the big guy?” “The reference to ‘the Big Guy’ in the much-publicized May 13, 2017, email is in fact a reference to Joe Biden,” said Bobulinski, who says he was brought on as CEO of Sinohawk Holdings by Hunter Biden and James Gilliar, the sender of the email. https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-reject-gop-attempts-upload-123016583.html https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-reject-gop-attempts-upload-... This is from a tabloid style publication with published screenshots from media found on the laptop. "It also reportedly contains a 12-minute video that appears to show Hunter smoking crack while engaged in a sex act with a woman, as well as numerous other sexually explicit images." https://the-sun.com/news/4923690/hunter-bidens-laptop-emails-orgy-pics-confirmed-his/ https://the-sun.com/news/4923690/hunter-bidens-laptop-emails... In light of this, I predict that impartial, objective media outlets will continue to be replaced by overtly partisan news outlets at a faster pace. When I think about it, I'm not sure an impartial media outlet has existed for years now given that it's so difficult for human beings to be fully objective.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

The laptop story was so way out there it was only fit for tabloid publication. It wasn’t squashed so much that it was the story about a blind computer repairman who thought he recognized the former Vice President’s son in Delaware who is somehow so renowned that he attracts business all the way from Los Angeles. Even the Republicans didn’t feel comfortable seriously running with it.

_-david-_ 4y ago
I don't think anybody is claiming Hunter went all the way to Delaware to repair his laptop. The Bidens have a house in Delaware so it is reasonable to suspect that Hunter was already in the state.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  If that’s what they were going with sure. I guess it could have been any random computer repair shop in any state, but how often do you take your MacBooks to get repaired at some random place when visiting your parents, and leave them there since you live in LA anyways? On the other hand, it’s such a shoddy setup I doubt any half way decent intelligence agency would plant the laptop there. But maybe blind computer repair people just aren’t that common?
travisathougies 4y ago
Is it so unreasonable to believe that Hunter Biden, who grew up in Delaware and whose father has to live in delaware, since he has been the senator from delaware for almost fifty years, ended up with a laptop in need of repair in Delaware?
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  No. It is unreasonable to think that he left it at the computer store with someone legally blind, and left no contact information. It is unreasonable to think that this legally person recognized the customer as Hunter Biden. It is unreasonable to think that Hunter Biden then completely forgot about it. And that the owner of the store, who apparently has political connections including Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani, could not figure out how to reach out to Hunter Biden. And then, three years after it had been left with him, decided to snoop on it. And then was able to reach out to Rudy Giuliani to tell him all about it. And that Rudy Giuliani was "protecting his life" from the Clinton campaign, to stop them "killing him, too" (referencing Seth Rich). And then that despite the owner of the store saying he backed up a copy of the drive, delivered it to Steve Bannon, who delivered another copy to the media... when it came time to handing over the laptop, it was put in a USPS mail envelope - no tracking, no certification, no insurance. Where it was then lost. All that? That's unreasonable.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    You make several good points, but I'll address the few that are not very good > It is unreasonable to think that Hunter Biden then completely forgot about it. Hunter Biden is a known drug addict. It is reasonable to assume that he can forget something as crucial as his personal laptop given his history of abuse. > Where it was then lost. At this point, everyone has accepted that it is Hunter's laptop. Most people have also accepted that the contents are also genuine. It was also never contested by either Hunter or President Biden. "There could be a laptop out there that was stolen from me. It could be that I was hacked. It could be that it was the — that it was Russian intelligence." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-laptop-reports-intervention-memoir/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-laptop-reports-int... In the grand picture, the narrative of how they acquired the laptop doesn't matter, though I agree with you that it's likely from theft. It's akin to computer thieves encountering child pornography in one of their "scores". What matters more are the contents, which are disturbing. The drug abuse and sex are banal. However, the evidence of corruption is disturbing. To be fair, I'm confident both you and I can find documented instances of corruption in the Trump administration. The difference is that the mainstream media is only going to actively protect Biden during election season, which lends credence to the far right's accusation that the mainstream media is biased. https://news.yahoo.com/york-times-quietly-deletes-claim-021800355.html https://news.yahoo.com/york-times-quietly-deletes-claim-0218...

chaostheory 4y ago

You sum it up well. They win one battle at the risk of losing the entire war for public trust.

nullc 4y ago

> one of media literacy I'm not entirely sure what 'media literacy' means when you can get more accurate reporting from a late night TV comedian than from "the newspaper of record". Too many people have been shaken out of their gell-mann amnesia by experiencing some respected media outlet telling something they personally know to be a lie, or worse-- seeing the hierarchy inverted by seeing the reputable place lie while an obvious tabloid tells the truth. The laptop is a great example-- the google-sent messages to hunter pass DKIM validation: they're cryptographically signed by google, so anyone with appropriate technical skill can verify their veracity beyond reasonable dispute. But a tabloid published it and not only did the reputable places not do so, but there was widespread collusion to suppress any discussion of it. > revealed nepotism/influence peddling Well, it was strongly indicative of hunter involved in that stuff. It's a little more complicated because he's a known-and-admitted screwup. If hunter was going around selling his father's influence without his father's knowledge, that shouldn't necessarily reflect negatively on Biden Sr. The material from the laptop made available actually connecting Sr. to any of it appears to be extremely tenuous. That said, it's not an unreasonable heuristic to assume from the fact that its all been so aggressively suppressed that there is a smoking gun there, so I can't fault people for doing so. As you note, the broader issue is one that's worthwhile to discuss.

landryraccoon 4y ago
Can you link to the contents of the laptop? I still have never gotten a consistent answer on what exactly the laptop supposedly contains.

landryraccoon 4y ago

Can you link to the contents of the laptop? I still have never gotten a consistent answer on what exactly the laptop supposedly contains.

chaostheory 4y ago
It's hard to get the contents from an MSM outlet since most if not all the centrist mainstream outlets barely mention it, which makes the optics seem partisan. At best, they're just covering the controversy of their own decision to do a news blackout before the 2020 elections, barely mentioning the laptop contents. (Some people on HN may disagree, but a 2nd consecutive Trump term would have been disastrous.) Meanwhile, the overtly partisan outlets on the right give lurid details... but they're partisan which also makes the optics look bad. However, given the recent news articles they've also been vindicated, especially the NY Post. This is probably the best, seemingly non-partisan summary of the contents. (It's still partisan because it's so vague, when it doesn't need to be.) "The Post and other conservative media outlets’ coverage of Hunter’s files partly involved lurid material about Hunter’s personal life. Hunter’s struggles with drug addiction were already a matter of public record, but the files contained further embarrassing details, as well as sexual material. The other focus of coverage was Hunter’s lucrative foreign work, most notably with a Ukrainian gas company and Chinese business interests. Trump allies had long claimed this work proved not just Hunter’s but Joe Biden’s corruption, and they combed through Hunter’s emails to try to make that case." https://www.vox.com/22992772/hunter-biden-laptop https://www.vox.com/22992772/hunter-biden-laptop Here's another mainstream instance of late coverage One infamous email purportedly detailed a business arrangement between a Chinese company and the Biden family. Tony Bobulinski, who is listed as a recipient of the email first published by the New York Post, offered further detail last year in a statement to Fox News on the correspondence in October 2020, which references a proposed equity split: “20” for “H” and “10 held by H for the big guy?” “The reference to ‘the Big Guy’ in the much-publicized May 13, 2017, email is in fact a reference to Joe Biden,” said Bobulinski, who says he was brought on as CEO of Sinohawk Holdings by Hunter Biden and James Gilliar, the sender of the email. https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-reject-gop-attempts-upload-123016583.html https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-reject-gop-attempts-upload-... This is from a tabloid style publication with published screenshots from media found on the laptop. "It also reportedly contains a 12-minute video that appears to show Hunter smoking crack while engaged in a sex act with a woman, as well as numerous other sexually explicit images." https://the-sun.com/news/4923690/hunter-bidens-laptop-emails-orgy-pics-confirmed-his/ https://the-sun.com/news/4923690/hunter-bidens-laptop-emails... In light of this, I predict that impartial, objective media outlets will continue to be replaced by overtly partisan news outlets at a faster pace. When I think about it, I'm not sure an impartial media outlet has existed for years now given that it's so difficult for human beings to be fully objective.