6 ms·

> as seen with the limit on external screens on some M1 models (…) I hope Apple fixes these issues soon It’s only the base M1 used in the low-end devices that

by Aaargh20318 5y ago

> as seen with the limit on external screens on some M1 models (…) I hope Apple fixes these issues soon It’s only the base M1 used in the low-end devices that has limited support for external screens. A MBPro with M1 Max can drive 3x6k (DP1.4) plus 1x4k(HDMI2.0). That seems like more than enough for a laptop. Sounds to me like these issues have already been fixed.

Alatrix 5y ago
How can you call a 2000$ mb pro or a 1700 imac low end devices?
- Aaargh20318 5y ago
  What are you talking about ? Both the 13" MBPro as well as the iMac start at $1299. The $2k MBPro with M1 Pro can drive 2 external 6k monitors, which seems reasonable. If you're the kind of user who needs 4 external displays, you're probably going to want the M1 Max anyway.
  - Alatrix 5y ago
    Sorry i used conversion from prices in euros, the base m1 imac is around 1630$ converted here. That's not by any mean cheap or entry level pricing and no it's not ok even for the 2k MBpro to only support 2 monitors at maximum. The kind of user who needs 3 displays doesn't need an m1 max anyway. I'm that user.
    - Alatrix 5y ago
      Sorry again, it supports up to 3 wich is actually fine for a laptop. The 13 inch mbpro only supports 1. That's not fine. That's not entry level.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  Mac Mini is under $1000 and it’s the same chip.
  - zchrykng 5y ago
    Mac Mini is capped at two external displays. The 13-inch Air and Pro are capped at one external display since it has a built in display. The 14- and 16-inch Pros support 3+ displays and the built in.
    - spectre3d 5y ago
      Like you said, my M1 Mac mini “officially” supports two monitors plugged in directly. It’s nice that DisplayLink connections let an M1 machine have unlimited displays, and that the performance of their driver under Big Sur and above has been fantastic (for me) for the past half year driving 2 extra displays. (Four total, 1 is vertical) I sometimes add an iPad in Sidecar mode, but that needs to connect before DisplayLink or it will error out, likely since the mini is flabbergasted at the number of monitors it sees attached at that moment. Since my DisplayLink connections are both on the same ThinkPad dock (1 built-in, 1 USB), I just toggle the dock off, connect the iPad with Sidecar, and turn it back on. After a moment everything is working as expected. BetterTouchTool has a newish feature to capture your current window layout across all open apps and displays and lets you assign a shortcut to put everything back where you intended. I use it after first boot if needed, and keep one for ‘4 monitors’ and one for ‘5 monitors’ (when using Sidecar with iPad) On-topic: Thankfully the Apple Silicon USB ports are more than fast enough for DisplayLink adapters, which (in my experience) are often using an early version of USB 3.0 aka USB 3.1 Gen 1 aka USB 3.2 Gen 1.
kcb 5y ago
Apple doesn't make low-end devices.
- fumar 5y ago
  Isn't the Mac M1 mini $699?
  - cestith 5y ago
    Did you just compare the $700 Mini to a $140 ECS Liva or some $200 HP or Asus Chromebox?
    - wpm 5y ago
      Did you just compare a $200 HP or Asus Chromebox to a $0 free 15 year old Dell tower from your local Freegeek? We can do this all day.
      - cestith 5y ago
        Do you think a 15 year old Dell is going to match the performance of any new machine? "Old" is not the same thing as "low end".
        Terretta 5y ago
        > Do you think a 15 year old Dell is going to match the performance of any new machine? Well, yes? We aren't that much faster since 2010 if you had true top end then and true low end now. But since talking Macs and Chromebooks, let pull up those: - Geekbench MacBook Pro 2010 15": 2.66GHz Intel Core i7 (i7-620M): 457 single, 972 multi - https://www.ebay.com/itm/304426589491?hash=item46e13d1d33:g:w~YAAOSwJwZiSkfq https://www.ebay.com/itm/304426589491?hash=item46e13d1d33:g:... And a currently shipping Chromebook, when sorting price low to high: - HP 4BS38UA HP Chromebook 14 IPS HD (1366x768) Intel Celeron N3350: 288 single, 523 multi - https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-1366x768-Bluetooth-14-ca023nr/dp/B07FNCJJ8V/ https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-1366x768-Bluetooth-14-c... In this case, the 2010 Mac smokes the Chromebook. To be fair, that model became available in 2018. So, something current? Acer Chromebooks w/ Intel Celeron N4020 have pretty bad benchmarks (~320-460 single, ~320-500 multi) but the CPU itself rates better: - Celeron N4020 benchmark: 427 single, 750 multi That's in currently shipping gear, like this HP introduced fall 2021: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-Micro-Edge-Portable-14a-na0023nr/dp/B099M5J8MP/ https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-Micro-Edge-Portable-14a... Given these scores are comparing 2010 laptops with 2021 laptops, and the 2010 laptop wins (and can be bought at around the same price!), certainly if comparing a 15 year old workstation with cheapest available machine today, yes, the 15 year old Dell will exceed the performance of at least some new machines. Note: - Xeon in Mac Pro in 2010 rated 611 single, 6280 multi By comparison, in 2008 Mac Pro workstation: - Intel Xeon E5462 2800 MHz (8 cores) rated 420 single and 2540 multi Dell workstations at that time supported 5400 series Xeons.
zeusk 5y ago
They still don't support DP MST, so you have to use multiple TB ports or use a monitor that supports TB daisy-chaining.
- Terretta 5y ago
  Or a dock. Not disputing the DP MST, just noting there are docks that can drive 2 x 6K. CalDigit's new dock takes a single TB4 cable to drive, and can do: - 2x TB4 - 1x DP 1.4 - supporting - 2x 5K60 OR - 1x 8K60 OR - 1x 4K144 OR - 1x 1440p240 According to https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2021/02/05/usb4-tb4-docks/ https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2021/02/05/usb4-tb4-docks/ Or, as CalDigit puts it (see final paragraph): Single 8K or Dual 6K Monitors Users on Windows can connect a single monitor up to 8K resolution, and users on macOS can connect up to a single 6K 60Hz monitor. When connecting dual monitors Windows users can connect up to dual 4K 60Hz monitors, and macOS users on M1 Pro or M1 Max computers can connect up to dual 6K 60Hz monitors. Users on original M1 computers cannot connect dual monitors as original M1 computers do not support dual displays.
  - zeusk 5y ago
    A daisy chaining monitor is essentially an in-built dock in most cases. I work on Displays at Microsoft :)
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    How does it do 2x 5K60? The only true 5K monitors I know of are the LG 5k and the Apple Studio Display which are both TB or USB-C monitors, not DP. 5K60 takes ~25gb/sec, multiply times two and the single TB cable as input can’t handle 50gb/sec.
    - goosedragons 5y ago
      Display stream compression. You can only do it with the ASD as the LG doesn't support DSC.
      - 5y ago

Alatrix 5y ago

How can you call a 2000$ mb pro or a 1700 imac low end devices?

Aaargh20318 5y ago
What are you talking about ? Both the 13" MBPro as well as the iMac start at $1299. The $2k MBPro with M1 Pro can drive 2 external 6k monitors, which seems reasonable. If you're the kind of user who needs 4 external displays, you're probably going to want the M1 Max anyway.
- Alatrix 5y ago
  Sorry i used conversion from prices in euros, the base m1 imac is around 1630$ converted here. That's not by any mean cheap or entry level pricing and no it's not ok even for the 2k MBpro to only support 2 monitors at maximum. The kind of user who needs 3 displays doesn't need an m1 max anyway. I'm that user.
  - Alatrix 5y ago
    Sorry again, it supports up to 3 wich is actually fine for a laptop. The 13 inch mbpro only supports 1. That's not fine. That's not entry level.
Forgeties79 5y ago
Mac Mini is under $1000 and it’s the same chip.
- zchrykng 5y ago
  Mac Mini is capped at two external displays. The 13-inch Air and Pro are capped at one external display since it has a built in display. The 14- and 16-inch Pros support 3+ displays and the built in.
  - spectre3d 5y ago
    Like you said, my M1 Mac mini “officially” supports two monitors plugged in directly. It’s nice that DisplayLink connections let an M1 machine have unlimited displays, and that the performance of their driver under Big Sur and above has been fantastic (for me) for the past half year driving 2 extra displays. (Four total, 1 is vertical) I sometimes add an iPad in Sidecar mode, but that needs to connect before DisplayLink or it will error out, likely since the mini is flabbergasted at the number of monitors it sees attached at that moment. Since my DisplayLink connections are both on the same ThinkPad dock (1 built-in, 1 USB), I just toggle the dock off, connect the iPad with Sidecar, and turn it back on. After a moment everything is working as expected. BetterTouchTool has a newish feature to capture your current window layout across all open apps and displays and lets you assign a shortcut to put everything back where you intended. I use it after first boot if needed, and keep one for ‘4 monitors’ and one for ‘5 monitors’ (when using Sidecar with iPad) On-topic: Thankfully the Apple Silicon USB ports are more than fast enough for DisplayLink adapters, which (in my experience) are often using an early version of USB 3.0 aka USB 3.1 Gen 1 aka USB 3.2 Gen 1.

kcb 5y ago

Apple doesn't make low-end devices.

fumar 5y ago
Isn't the Mac M1 mini $699?
- cestith 5y ago
  Did you just compare the $700 Mini to a $140 ECS Liva or some $200 HP or Asus Chromebox?
  - wpm 5y ago
    Did you just compare a $200 HP or Asus Chromebox to a $0 free 15 year old Dell tower from your local Freegeek? We can do this all day.
    - cestith 5y ago
      Do you think a 15 year old Dell is going to match the performance of any new machine? "Old" is not the same thing as "low end".
      - Terretta 5y ago
        > Do you think a 15 year old Dell is going to match the performance of any new machine? Well, yes? We aren't that much faster since 2010 if you had true top end then and true low end now. But since talking Macs and Chromebooks, let pull up those: - Geekbench MacBook Pro 2010 15": 2.66GHz Intel Core i7 (i7-620M): 457 single, 972 multi - https://www.ebay.com/itm/304426589491?hash=item46e13d1d33:g:w~YAAOSwJwZiSkfq https://www.ebay.com/itm/304426589491?hash=item46e13d1d33:g:... And a currently shipping Chromebook, when sorting price low to high: - HP 4BS38UA HP Chromebook 14 IPS HD (1366x768) Intel Celeron N3350: 288 single, 523 multi - https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-1366x768-Bluetooth-14-ca023nr/dp/B07FNCJJ8V/ https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-1366x768-Bluetooth-14-c... In this case, the 2010 Mac smokes the Chromebook. To be fair, that model became available in 2018. So, something current? Acer Chromebooks w/ Intel Celeron N4020 have pretty bad benchmarks (~320-460 single, ~320-500 multi) but the CPU itself rates better: - Celeron N4020 benchmark: 427 single, 750 multi That's in currently shipping gear, like this HP introduced fall 2021: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-Micro-Edge-Portable-14a-na0023nr/dp/B099M5J8MP/ https://www.amazon.com/HP-Chromebook-Micro-Edge-Portable-14a... Given these scores are comparing 2010 laptops with 2021 laptops, and the 2010 laptop wins (and can be bought at around the same price!), certainly if comparing a 15 year old workstation with cheapest available machine today, yes, the 15 year old Dell will exceed the performance of at least some new machines. Note: - Xeon in Mac Pro in 2010 rated 611 single, 6280 multi By comparison, in 2008 Mac Pro workstation: - Intel Xeon E5462 2800 MHz (8 cores) rated 420 single and 2540 multi Dell workstations at that time supported 5400 series Xeons.

zeusk 5y ago

They still don't support DP MST, so you have to use multiple TB ports or use a monitor that supports TB daisy-chaining.

Terretta 5y ago
Or a dock. Not disputing the DP MST, just noting there are docks that can drive 2 x 6K. CalDigit's new dock takes a single TB4 cable to drive, and can do: - 2x TB4 - 1x DP 1.4 - supporting - 2x 5K60 OR - 1x 8K60 OR - 1x 4K144 OR - 1x 1440p240 According to https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2021/02/05/usb4-tb4-docks/ https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2021/02/05/usb4-tb4-docks/ Or, as CalDigit puts it (see final paragraph): Single 8K or Dual 6K Monitors Users on Windows can connect a single monitor up to 8K resolution, and users on macOS can connect up to a single 6K 60Hz monitor. When connecting dual monitors Windows users can connect up to dual 4K 60Hz monitors, and macOS users on M1 Pro or M1 Max computers can connect up to dual 6K 60Hz monitors. Users on original M1 computers cannot connect dual monitors as original M1 computers do not support dual displays.
- zeusk 5y ago
  A daisy chaining monitor is essentially an in-built dock in most cases. I work on Displays at Microsoft :)
- jsjohnst 5y ago
  How does it do 2x 5K60? The only true 5K monitors I know of are the LG 5k and the Apple Studio Display which are both TB or USB-C monitors, not DP. 5K60 takes ~25gb/sec, multiply times two and the single TB cable as input can’t handle 50gb/sec.
  - goosedragons 5y ago
    Display stream compression. You can only do it with the ASD as the LG doesn't support DSC.
    - 5y ago