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This (top level story) is a reflection of _SAMSUNG_ (particularly SEC-SLSI) culture. There are certainly elements of Korean culture, but it is for example VERY

by kurthr 5y ago

This (top level story) is a reflection of _SAMSUNG_ (particularly SEC-SLSI) culture. There are certainly elements of Korean culture, but it is for example VERY different from LG culture. I don't understand why there's a reason to jump to 5000 years of history for criticism of a part of a company that's having problems... apparently with truthful internal communication. I think most people would accept that Intel has/had similar problems based in financial optimization, but that doesn't directly reflect on 5000 years of western culture.

userbinator 5y ago
but that doesn't directly reflect on 5000 years of western culture. There hasn't even been 5000 years of western culture...
- edgyquant 5y ago
  There hasn’t been 5000 years of any culture tbh
  - moistly 5y ago
    Australian aborigines have over 50000 years of culture behind them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indigenous_Australians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indigenous_Australi...
    - klibertp 5y ago
      Very off-topic, but it's one of the most shameful episodes in Western, British, and Australian history. Almost 200 years of racism, persecution, forced assimilation, kidnapping children and putting them into religious institutions, and a lot more - and it was only in 2008 that the Australian govt cared to apologize. Incredible cultures, incredible wealth of lifestyles, ideas, beliefs - almost destroyed in the name of "making [Aboriginal people] more civilized and industrious". Yes, the glorious Western civilization did the same pretty much everywhere, but Australian Aboriginal people's culture is unique due to their very long period of isolation - it's a gem and wonder worth studying and learning from. Yet, the Western instinct was to trample on and destroy it, systematically, irreversibly, just for the sake of it. Reading the Wiki page you linked some time back literally left me in tears. How could we. I don't even.
      - bigDinosaur 5y ago
        Even further off topic, but you may be surprised to learn how much culture the imperial powers erased within their own countries. Take a country like France: it's hard to believe that French wasn't the majority language until almost the 20th century. Now look at it - many of the regional languages are extinct or endangered with French overwhelmingly dominant. Think that this was a peaceful and consensual process? Think again!
        alduin32 5y ago
        Yes, that's very true, thanks for making that point. I'd like to add that it's never too late to try to preserve these cultures, traditions and languages. Getting interested to the ones of your place of residence, even if you're not from there originally, can be a great experience. One of the best ways to do it is through singing and dancing (they go great together), and more generally, there are often chorals and various groups dedicated to these cultures, traditions and languages. And indeed when you get into this kind of thing, you realize how much culture has been erased (in my case, the Occitan culture), but also you can see how much is left, and how important it is to preserve it. It also helps a lot when reflecting on our own modern, imposed, culture, and realize that some of the things we think have always been there, have not.
      - BlueMatter5 5y ago
        aaronbeekay 5y ago
        Dude, your argument is “yeah, but what if the Aboriginal Australians actually deserved to be ground into dust”?? The hell?
        BlueMatter5 5y ago
        My argument is that few people are aware of how barbaric many aspects of Aboriginal culture were. This was not some flawless society to be fawned over and emulated, as modern woke scholars might have you believe, this was a culture rife with violence, rape, torture and cannibalism. Only last week I read a primary account from a settler describing an Aboriginal practice where a stick would be tipped with a various makeshift hooks, attached with sap and string. A young girl from the tribe would be selected and restrained, and the stick used to penetrate her and render injuries to the point of sterilisation. She would then be used by the tribe's men at will, notably in ceremonies where she would be gang-raped, with the subsequent blood and semen collected to be consumed by the frail and weak to boost their vitality. And so I put the question to you: If you had the means and will to rescue a child from this fate, by taking her away to be homed and schooled in a facility for this purpose, would you still - in all your cultured wisdom - instead choose to sit idly by and "let nature take its course"?
  - ableal 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt Co-opted first by Alexander, then Caesar. Later Napoleon also dropped by ... Seems to have slipped everybody's mind here, strangely.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      The implication here is that Modern Egypt and Ancient Egypt are the same culture, which isn’t true by any real definition since as you mentioned Egyptian culture was Hellenized centuries before the Romans showed up (and semi-Persianized centuries prior to that.) This is like claiming the Islamic Republic of Iran is the same culture as ancient Persia.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  Some would say there haven't been any.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    - mikehotel 5y ago
      I think he was taking the piss.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  I believe the Classical Greek era is usually considered the roots of Western Civilization, so roughly 2500 years. But if you go back to the Early Greek era of the Minoan civilizations then it is about 5000 years. It's all slow, gradual accretion though, so you can draw the line in lots of places.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Wouldn’t you have to go back to Mesopotamia to get 5000 years? And I’m not sure if that is really considered western.
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      No, Minoan gets you close to 5000, again depending on where you draw line. 5500 if you go back to its roots, hard to call that a civilization, maybe around 4500 if you're looking for something like precursor to cities in the form of small centers of trade. 4000 for examples of writing. Although with remains like that you never know if they simply used less durable materials before hand, or if none have been found yet. Either way, on any of those benchmarks Mesopotamia precedes it by at least a few centuries or more, though Minoan does get you back pretty far. I don't know the migration patterns, but I think there was influence from Mesopotamia. Classical Greece ~2500 years is probably often where the line is drawn because that's where some of the foundational works of culture, philosophy, and math had their start and became founding members of the "Western Canon". For millenia, students were trained in Greek and Latin and read the great works of those time periods. But there was a civilization that gradually evolved into that time period, complete with it's own Dark Ages before things climbed back up to what became Classical.
- timthorn 5y ago
  Stonehenge dates from 3000BC
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    And we have little idea who build it and for what. I expect at least those basics down for anything to be called part of our culture. At least for back-dating purposes.

by kurthr 5y ago

userbinator 5y ago

but that doesn't directly reflect on 5000 years of western culture. There hasn't even been 5000 years of western culture...

edgyquant 5y ago
There hasn’t been 5000 years of any culture tbh
- moistly 5y ago
  Australian aborigines have over 50000 years of culture behind them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indigenous_Australians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indigenous_Australi...
  - klibertp 5y ago
    Very off-topic, but it's one of the most shameful episodes in Western, British, and Australian history. Almost 200 years of racism, persecution, forced assimilation, kidnapping children and putting them into religious institutions, and a lot more - and it was only in 2008 that the Australian govt cared to apologize. Incredible cultures, incredible wealth of lifestyles, ideas, beliefs - almost destroyed in the name of "making [Aboriginal people] more civilized and industrious". Yes, the glorious Western civilization did the same pretty much everywhere, but Australian Aboriginal people's culture is unique due to their very long period of isolation - it's a gem and wonder worth studying and learning from. Yet, the Western instinct was to trample on and destroy it, systematically, irreversibly, just for the sake of it. Reading the Wiki page you linked some time back literally left me in tears. How could we. I don't even.
    - bigDinosaur 5y ago
      Even further off topic, but you may be surprised to learn how much culture the imperial powers erased within their own countries. Take a country like France: it's hard to believe that French wasn't the majority language until almost the 20th century. Now look at it - many of the regional languages are extinct or endangered with French overwhelmingly dominant. Think that this was a peaceful and consensual process? Think again!
      - alduin32 5y ago
        Yes, that's very true, thanks for making that point. I'd like to add that it's never too late to try to preserve these cultures, traditions and languages. Getting interested to the ones of your place of residence, even if you're not from there originally, can be a great experience. One of the best ways to do it is through singing and dancing (they go great together), and more generally, there are often chorals and various groups dedicated to these cultures, traditions and languages. And indeed when you get into this kind of thing, you realize how much culture has been erased (in my case, the Occitan culture), but also you can see how much is left, and how important it is to preserve it. It also helps a lot when reflecting on our own modern, imposed, culture, and realize that some of the things we think have always been there, have not.
    - BlueMatter5 5y ago
      - aaronbeekay 5y ago
        Dude, your argument is “yeah, but what if the Aboriginal Australians actually deserved to be ground into dust”?? The hell?
        BlueMatter5 5y ago
        My argument is that few people are aware of how barbaric many aspects of Aboriginal culture were. This was not some flawless society to be fawned over and emulated, as modern woke scholars might have you believe, this was a culture rife with violence, rape, torture and cannibalism. Only last week I read a primary account from a settler describing an Aboriginal practice where a stick would be tipped with a various makeshift hooks, attached with sap and string. A young girl from the tribe would be selected and restrained, and the stick used to penetrate her and render injuries to the point of sterilisation. She would then be used by the tribe's men at will, notably in ceremonies where she would be gang-raped, with the subsequent blood and semen collected to be consumed by the frail and weak to boost their vitality. And so I put the question to you: If you had the means and will to rescue a child from this fate, by taking her away to be homed and schooled in a facility for this purpose, would you still - in all your cultured wisdom - instead choose to sit idly by and "let nature take its course"?
- ableal 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt Co-opted first by Alexander, then Caesar. Later Napoleon also dropped by ... Seems to have slipped everybody's mind here, strangely.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    The implication here is that Modern Egypt and Ancient Egypt are the same culture, which isn’t true by any real definition since as you mentioned Egyptian culture was Hellenized centuries before the Romans showed up (and semi-Persianized centuries prior to that.) This is like claiming the Islamic Republic of Iran is the same culture as ancient Persia.
jeffbee 5y ago
Some would say there haven't been any.
- kortilla 5y ago
  - mikehotel 5y ago
    I think he was taking the piss.
ineedasername 5y ago
I believe the Classical Greek era is usually considered the roots of Western Civilization, so roughly 2500 years. But if you go back to the Early Greek era of the Minoan civilizations then it is about 5000 years. It's all slow, gradual accretion though, so you can draw the line in lots of places.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Wouldn’t you have to go back to Mesopotamia to get 5000 years? And I’m not sure if that is really considered western.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    No, Minoan gets you close to 5000, again depending on where you draw line. 5500 if you go back to its roots, hard to call that a civilization, maybe around 4500 if you're looking for something like precursor to cities in the form of small centers of trade. 4000 for examples of writing. Although with remains like that you never know if they simply used less durable materials before hand, or if none have been found yet. Either way, on any of those benchmarks Mesopotamia precedes it by at least a few centuries or more, though Minoan does get you back pretty far. I don't know the migration patterns, but I think there was influence from Mesopotamia. Classical Greece ~2500 years is probably often where the line is drawn because that's where some of the foundational works of culture, philosophy, and math had their start and became founding members of the "Western Canon". For millenia, students were trained in Greek and Latin and read the great works of those time periods. But there was a civilization that gradually evolved into that time period, complete with it's own Dark Ages before things climbed back up to what became Classical.
timthorn 5y ago
Stonehenge dates from 3000BC
- Ekaros 5y ago
  And we have little idea who build it and for what. I expect at least those basics down for anything to be called part of our culture. At least for back-dating purposes.