6 ms·

Slavery is not a trade you choose to practice. Not sure how this is constructive.

by Supermancho 5y ago

neojebfkekeej 5y ago
Slavery has redefined itself into newer forms. One such manifestation is in the form of worker exploitation.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lurquer 5y ago
  Words don’t redefine themselves. Describing low-paying jobs as “slavery” is a metaphor. Saying “certain aspects of X are like Y” does not mean Y ‘is’ X. But, of course, that is often why rhetoricians use metaphors and similes… to dupe and confuse people into a false equivalence. There are slaves in this world… diluting the meaning of the word to include Uber drivers does not help them.
  - belter 5y ago
    That is not the argument. The argument is that Uber business model is more cost-effective than Slavery. (And without trying to sound insensitive here)...the "slave owner" still bears the costs of his "slaves".
    - yywwbbn 5y ago
      But it’s still not profitable, unlike slavery which was extremely profitable. So how can it be more effective?
      - belter 5y ago
        "Slave owners" did not have high AWS bills, Stock Based compensation, Sales and Marketing and so on... "Uber Technologies Operating Expenses 2017-2021 | UBER" https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technologies/operating-expenses#:~:text=Uber%20Technologies%20annual%20operating%20expenses,a%2012.1%25%20increase%20from%202017 https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technolo.... "Uber Announces Results for Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021" https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2022/Uber-Announces-Results-for-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2021/ https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-det...
- ohyoutravel 5y ago
  I am interested to hear your reasoning on this. To me, thinking through it, I see some potential commonalities but the sine qua non of being owned as property fails. Is the argument that people have to work in general to survive, and it is the fact that they have to work what renders them as a “modern slave?” I hope not because that seems facile.
mistrial9 5y ago
"slavery" is a relationship with gravitational pull for the ages; less a literal, particular configuration IMHO
- naoqj 5y ago
  If you can freely change the meaning of words then they may as well have no meaning at all.
  - catlifeonmars 5y ago
    Only if we don’t all agree on the new meaning :)
- gruez 5y ago
  If you call working for uber "slavery", what do you call what african-americans were subjected to in southern US up to the 19th century? "super-slavery"?
belter 5y ago
Animats did not claim it's Slavery, it claimed it's more cost-effective than Slavery.
pessimizer 5y ago
Slavery is not a trade you choose to have practiced on you, it is a trade you choose to practice. And as a slave, you always have a choice. It's not cost effective to monitor and restrain you well enough to keep you from killing yourself indefinitely. Lacking others, plenty of slaves have chosen and do choose this option. Same as if all physical work turns into piece/gig-work. You can choose to do it, or you can choose to starve.
- aetherson 5y ago
  Or, you know, as a gig or piece worker, you can choose to do something else, which as it turns out is not a choice a slave enjoys. Do you feel kind of dirty suggesting that a slave can just choose to kill himself and comparing that to Barcelona cab drivers? If you don't, why not?
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    > as a gig or piece worker, you can choose to do something else Not if every other job is gig and piecework. > Do you feel kind of dirty suggesting that a slave can just choose to kill himself and comparing that to Barcelona cab drivers? If you don't, why not? No, because choice is a word that means something. You're doing the common rationalization that there are always choices in employment, so while any particular employment can be arbitrarily bad, it's not slavery. I'm pointing out that slaves also have bad choices.
    - aetherson 5y ago
      I mean, among other things, Spain has a social safety net for people who don't work at all. There are obviously shitty jobs in the world. There are obviously people whose choices do not include, you know, the ideal of material well-being plus fulfilling days. It is certainly a defensible position that the world owes it to people in that position to try to make their choices better. Conflating those things to slavery makes you fundamentally an unserious person.

Slavery is not a trade you choose to practice. Not sure how this is constructive.

neojebfkekeej 5y ago

Slavery has redefined itself into newer forms. One such manifestation is in the form of worker exploitation.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lurquer 5y ago
Words don’t redefine themselves. Describing low-paying jobs as “slavery” is a metaphor. Saying “certain aspects of X are like Y” does not mean Y ‘is’ X. But, of course, that is often why rhetoricians use metaphors and similes… to dupe and confuse people into a false equivalence. There are slaves in this world… diluting the meaning of the word to include Uber drivers does not help them.
- belter 5y ago
  That is not the argument. The argument is that Uber business model is more cost-effective than Slavery. (And without trying to sound insensitive here)...the "slave owner" still bears the costs of his "slaves".
  - yywwbbn 5y ago
    But it’s still not profitable, unlike slavery which was extremely profitable. So how can it be more effective?
    - belter 5y ago
      "Slave owners" did not have high AWS bills, Stock Based compensation, Sales and Marketing and so on... "Uber Technologies Operating Expenses 2017-2021 | UBER" https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technologies/operating-expenses#:~:text=Uber%20Technologies%20annual%20operating%20expenses,a%2012.1%25%20increase%20from%202017 https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technolo.... "Uber Announces Results for Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021" https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2022/Uber-Announces-Results-for-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2021/ https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-det...
ohyoutravel 5y ago
I am interested to hear your reasoning on this. To me, thinking through it, I see some potential commonalities but the sine qua non of being owned as property fails. Is the argument that people have to work in general to survive, and it is the fact that they have to work what renders them as a “modern slave?” I hope not because that seems facile.

mistrial9 5y ago

"slavery" is a relationship with gravitational pull for the ages; less a literal, particular configuration IMHO

naoqj 5y ago
If you can freely change the meaning of words then they may as well have no meaning at all.
- catlifeonmars 5y ago
  Only if we don’t all agree on the new meaning :)
gruez 5y ago
If you call working for uber "slavery", what do you call what african-americans were subjected to in southern US up to the 19th century? "super-slavery"?

belter 5y ago

Animats did not claim it's Slavery, it claimed it's more cost-effective than Slavery.

pessimizer 5y ago

Slavery is not a trade you choose to have practiced on you, it is a trade you choose to practice. And as a slave, you always have a choice. It's not cost effective to monitor and restrain you well enough to keep you from killing yourself indefinitely. Lacking others, plenty of slaves have chosen and do choose this option. Same as if all physical work turns into piece/gig-work. You can choose to do it, or you can choose to starve.

aetherson 5y ago
Or, you know, as a gig or piece worker, you can choose to do something else, which as it turns out is not a choice a slave enjoys. Do you feel kind of dirty suggesting that a slave can just choose to kill himself and comparing that to Barcelona cab drivers? If you don't, why not?
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > as a gig or piece worker, you can choose to do something else Not if every other job is gig and piecework. > Do you feel kind of dirty suggesting that a slave can just choose to kill himself and comparing that to Barcelona cab drivers? If you don't, why not? No, because choice is a word that means something. You're doing the common rationalization that there are always choices in employment, so while any particular employment can be arbitrarily bad, it's not slavery. I'm pointing out that slaves also have bad choices.
  - aetherson 5y ago
    I mean, among other things, Spain has a social safety net for people who don't work at all. There are obviously shitty jobs in the world. There are obviously people whose choices do not include, you know, the ideal of material well-being plus fulfilling days. It is certainly a defensible position that the world owes it to people in that position to try to make their choices better. Conflating those things to slavery makes you fundamentally an unserious person.