4 ms·

Why do you believe Florida here? What’s more likely, that a math book is trying to “brainwash kids through CRT” or known political exaggerators are exaggerating

Why do you believe Florida here? What’s more likely, that a math book is trying to “brainwash kids through CRT” or known political exaggerators are exaggerating?

TechBro8615 4y ago
I’d rather not need to “believe” anyone with a political agenda. Can we see the book and read what it says?
- filmgirlcw 4y ago
  Ask the governor of Florida. He's the one who put out the press release but refuses to offer any evidence for why books were banned.
  - BrianOnHN 4y ago
    This right here. It's FUD and it works in Florida. I know both Florida teachers and elementary math curriculum writers. All call BS. The latter is happy to not be the former. Republican "moms" control the schools now.
    - randomtwiddler 4y ago
      As a former student and now a parent. I have no idea why we need to recreate math books over and over and over again. Seems an incredible waste of resources. The fundamental material doesn't change. I have seen politically motivated questions pop up in math questions for my kids. For years, this is pretty standard practice in my experience. Its not an appropriate venue to promote ideas yet it is used. I am unsurprised at the Florida announcement. But it speaks to much deeper issues in education and I'm uncertain at Florida's moves.
      - eropple 4y ago
        > I have seen politically motivated questions pop up in math questions for my kids. Can you provide examples?
        atchoo 4y ago
        Not the OP but I remember people had a bit of a reaction to maths and other textbooks when I was at school 30+ years ago in a rural part of the UK. The people in the examples were usually non-traditional British names like Deepak, Surinder, Jamal etc. yet such names would be very rare in a place with little immigration at that time. There would only be a handful of non British-white kids in a school of thousands. The reaction was far from outrage just a "well I guess we are doing this now". As a kid it seemed a little silly and forced but it was my first exposure to those names in print and helped normalise such identities. I'd say it was a positive thing if a bit over done / not subtle. I'd hate to think what would have happened if the parents had mumsnet or twitter back then...
        eropple 4y ago
        Yeah, exactly--I spent some time thinking before asking the question, and that was about all I could come up with, too. And that felt so obviously silly that that can't be it, right?
      - edanm 4y ago
        > As a former student and now a parent. I have no idea why we need to recreate math books over and over and over again. Seems an incredible waste of resources. The fundamental material doesn't change. The way we teach the material changes, for valid reasons: 1. We can get better at teaching it. (Optimistically). 2. We might need to update textbooks for more up-to-date references. Even if it's not political ideas, textbooks might reference things that are not relevant (or not reference things that are). 3. Whether or not they are better, sometimes new ideas of how to teach material are created. E.g. new math etc.
      - chrismcb 4y ago
        Math books are recreated because of money.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - randomtwiddler 4y ago
    My experience is that states generally have FOI requests that can be made where all the records of such activities are subject to inspection. Have you even tried to get the records? Or are you just complaining that they weren't provided in the announcement for your convenience?
    - filmgirlcw 4y ago
      Yes, because filing a FOIA request on a holiday weekend and getting a response is required before merely asking officials for more details about their decision. Unbelievable.
      - randomtwiddler 4y ago
        This is a pretty poor characterization of the context of the comment. Accusations are flying around here including calling them liars and intentionally hiding information. This is a far cry from "merely asking". Particularly since the other party isn't present in the forum, providing the avenue available to us to actually do the asking seemed reasonable to me. Unless the point is to complain uselessly into the void because of the need for two minutes of hate against political enemies. Then I'll bow out...
        filmgirlcw 4y ago
        > This is a pretty poor characterization of the context of the comment. I think it’s a completely fair characterization of the comment. You said: >> Have you even tried to get the records? Or are you just complaining that they weren't provided in the announcement for your convenience? The only fair way to read that comment is that if you haven’t gone through a FOIA process (on a holiday weekend), you can’t comment or complain about the lack of transparency in a decision. It’s actually very common that press releases like this are offered up with appendixes that show the decision making process and examples. That didn’t happen here. It’s worth asking why and it’s worth criticizing the ruling party for not offering that information. That’s not a political statement. > Accusations are flying around here including calling them liars and intentionally hiding information. I didn’t make any of those accusations. I said >> Ask the governor of Florida. He's the one who put out the press release but refuses to offer any evidence for why books were banned. Because thus far, he is the one who has put out the informantion and has refused to provide evidence when asked (and he has been asked, as has the Department of Education). Not responding is a refusal (or worse, implying that details might not be public until the publishers have appealed). It allows people on both sides to invent reasons as to why books were banned, which doesn’t help anything. If you can’t share the details about specific books not being accepted (and I think that is a cop-out excuse), you shouldn’t issue a press release saying it is for X reason with absolutely zero evidence or context. That shouldn’t be a controversial statement or opinion. > Unless the point is to complain uselessly into the void because of the need for two minutes of hate against political enemies. Then I'll bow out... You seem to see this as an issue about political sides; it isn’t. I would have the exact same response if a Democratic governor issued an order without proof/evidence of why a decision was made, especially if it were blatantly about pandering to the base.
- xphilter 4y ago
  Exactly. If this group of folks is saying “we won’t even show you the things we are seeming is evil” why would they have any credibility in your mind?
- hiq 4y ago
  > Worth noting: The education department described the review process as "transparent," but did not name the rejected textbooks nor provide examples of passages that failed to meet the criteria.
coldtea 4y ago
In 2022, both are very possible.
yes_really 4y ago
that the math book is trying to brainwash kids through CRT
josephcsible 4y ago
What incentive does Florida have to lie here? What other reason could they have to want to ban certain math textbooks?
- boardwaalk 4y ago
  Trying to look like warriors to their constituents in a manufactured culture war, frankly.
  - raffraffraff 4y ago
    Most communication is performative these days, and it's breaking society.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  > What incentive does Florida have to lie here? What incentive do they have to not provide details about what textbooks rejected? It would be embarrassing if they were actually transparent.

Why do you believe Florida here? What’s more likely, that a math book is trying to “brainwash kids through CRT” or known political exaggerators are exaggerating?

TechBro8615 4y ago

I’d rather not need to “believe” anyone with a political agenda. Can we see the book and read what it says?

filmgirlcw 4y ago
Ask the governor of Florida. He's the one who put out the press release but refuses to offer any evidence for why books were banned.
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  This right here. It's FUD and it works in Florida. I know both Florida teachers and elementary math curriculum writers. All call BS. The latter is happy to not be the former. Republican "moms" control the schools now.
  - randomtwiddler 4y ago
    As a former student and now a parent. I have no idea why we need to recreate math books over and over and over again. Seems an incredible waste of resources. The fundamental material doesn't change. I have seen politically motivated questions pop up in math questions for my kids. For years, this is pretty standard practice in my experience. Its not an appropriate venue to promote ideas yet it is used. I am unsurprised at the Florida announcement. But it speaks to much deeper issues in education and I'm uncertain at Florida's moves.
    - eropple 4y ago
      > I have seen politically motivated questions pop up in math questions for my kids. Can you provide examples?
      - atchoo 4y ago
        Not the OP but I remember people had a bit of a reaction to maths and other textbooks when I was at school 30+ years ago in a rural part of the UK. The people in the examples were usually non-traditional British names like Deepak, Surinder, Jamal etc. yet such names would be very rare in a place with little immigration at that time. There would only be a handful of non British-white kids in a school of thousands. The reaction was far from outrage just a "well I guess we are doing this now". As a kid it seemed a little silly and forced but it was my first exposure to those names in print and helped normalise such identities. I'd say it was a positive thing if a bit over done / not subtle. I'd hate to think what would have happened if the parents had mumsnet or twitter back then...
        eropple 4y ago
        Yeah, exactly--I spent some time thinking before asking the question, and that was about all I could come up with, too. And that felt so obviously silly that that can't be it, right?
    - edanm 4y ago
      > As a former student and now a parent. I have no idea why we need to recreate math books over and over and over again. Seems an incredible waste of resources. The fundamental material doesn't change. The way we teach the material changes, for valid reasons: 1. We can get better at teaching it. (Optimistically). 2. We might need to update textbooks for more up-to-date references. Even if it's not political ideas, textbooks might reference things that are not relevant (or not reference things that are). 3. Whether or not they are better, sometimes new ideas of how to teach material are created. E.g. new math etc.
    - chrismcb 4y ago
      Math books are recreated because of money.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- randomtwiddler 4y ago
  My experience is that states generally have FOI requests that can be made where all the records of such activities are subject to inspection. Have you even tried to get the records? Or are you just complaining that they weren't provided in the announcement for your convenience?
  - filmgirlcw 4y ago
    Yes, because filing a FOIA request on a holiday weekend and getting a response is required before merely asking officials for more details about their decision. Unbelievable.
    - randomtwiddler 4y ago
      This is a pretty poor characterization of the context of the comment. Accusations are flying around here including calling them liars and intentionally hiding information. This is a far cry from "merely asking". Particularly since the other party isn't present in the forum, providing the avenue available to us to actually do the asking seemed reasonable to me. Unless the point is to complain uselessly into the void because of the need for two minutes of hate against political enemies. Then I'll bow out...
      - filmgirlcw 4y ago
        > This is a pretty poor characterization of the context of the comment. I think it’s a completely fair characterization of the comment. You said: >> Have you even tried to get the records? Or are you just complaining that they weren't provided in the announcement for your convenience? The only fair way to read that comment is that if you haven’t gone through a FOIA process (on a holiday weekend), you can’t comment or complain about the lack of transparency in a decision. It’s actually very common that press releases like this are offered up with appendixes that show the decision making process and examples. That didn’t happen here. It’s worth asking why and it’s worth criticizing the ruling party for not offering that information. That’s not a political statement. > Accusations are flying around here including calling them liars and intentionally hiding information. I didn’t make any of those accusations. I said >> Ask the governor of Florida. He's the one who put out the press release but refuses to offer any evidence for why books were banned. Because thus far, he is the one who has put out the informantion and has refused to provide evidence when asked (and he has been asked, as has the Department of Education). Not responding is a refusal (or worse, implying that details might not be public until the publishers have appealed). It allows people on both sides to invent reasons as to why books were banned, which doesn’t help anything. If you can’t share the details about specific books not being accepted (and I think that is a cop-out excuse), you shouldn’t issue a press release saying it is for X reason with absolutely zero evidence or context. That shouldn’t be a controversial statement or opinion. > Unless the point is to complain uselessly into the void because of the need for two minutes of hate against political enemies. Then I'll bow out... You seem to see this as an issue about political sides; it isn’t. I would have the exact same response if a Democratic governor issued an order without proof/evidence of why a decision was made, especially if it were blatantly about pandering to the base.
xphilter 4y ago
Exactly. If this group of folks is saying “we won’t even show you the things we are seeming is evil” why would they have any credibility in your mind?
hiq 4y ago
> Worth noting: The education department described the review process as "transparent," but did not name the rejected textbooks nor provide examples of passages that failed to meet the criteria.

coldtea 4y ago

In 2022, both are very possible.

yes_really 4y ago

that the math book is trying to brainwash kids through CRT

josephcsible 4y ago

What incentive does Florida have to lie here? What other reason could they have to want to ban certain math textbooks?

boardwaalk 4y ago
Trying to look like warriors to their constituents in a manufactured culture war, frankly.
- raffraffraff 4y ago
  Most communication is performative these days, and it's breaking society.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
> What incentive does Florida have to lie here? What incentive do they have to not provide details about what textbooks rejected? It would be embarrassing if they were actually transparent.