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Florida says it rejected math textbooks for referring to critical race theory
- downrightmike 5y agoTransitive property?
- josephcsible 5y agoWhy should a math textbook contain anything even remotely related to race? Isn't that what social studies classes are for?
- technothrasher 5y agoWho knows? "The education department [...] did not name the rejected textbooks nor provide examples of passages that failed to meet the criteria."
- xphilter 5y agoHow do you know the math textbooks contain “anything remotely related to race”? Because the State tells you?
- upsidesinclude 5y ago'The State' is not a single entity. And moreover the proponents of this type of education are glad to argue in bad faith that it isn't included in the curriculum while inserting it into textbooks and including the practices in teachers workshops. We are at a crossroads between those who argue in good faith and those that argue in bad faith because they believe their means is acceptable for the ends they hope to achieve.
- xphilter 5y agoThe State here is literally the State of Florida that is using its power to ban materials that it claims (without evidence) contains something bad, called “crt” (without even describing what is bad). And they’re not the bad actors in your mind?
- upsidesinclude 5y agoNot ban. Remove from the curriculum.
- asdff 5y agoTextbooks tend to use examples that are relevant for students to learn about outside of the examplemaking.
- Someone 5y agoFTA: Most of the rejected books were for elementary schools Especially there, textbooks tend to have examples. Those could be racist.
- version_five 5y agoI don't know about the constitutional or jurisdictional issues here. But I am curious why "critical race theory" would be in a math textbook. I've taught math myself, and I would only ever choose a textbook that was about math. Having random political stuff in a math text is a bit of a red flag. What purpose is it serving and who thinks it should be there. I don't know if a state can or should set limits on what's in textbooks, but conceptually, I don't see why anyone would want CRT in a math book.
- Tomte 5y agoProbably something about "Equitable math". Teaching that math problems have a correct solution ("1+1=2") is considered racist by some, because… I can't tell you, because I didn't understand that when it was discussed some time ago. Maybe someone else remembers the structure of the argument and can provide an explanation?
- xphilter 5y agoMaybe because you’re throwing some junk out here on HN, you can offer up a citation? Who says 1+1=2 is racist, exactly?
- naoqj 5y ago"hyperbole"
- Tomte 5y agohttps://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/is-it-racist-to-expect-black-kids?s=r https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/is-it-racist-to-expect-... https://twitter.com/Michael_Frisch_/status/1363543065986818054 https://twitter.com/Michael_Frisch_/status/13635430659868180...
- manicdee 5y agoLots of words there with no evidence. The actual training teachers are receiving is that there are many ways to teach things like long division, and insisting on only using one method is not useful to students. As an example, when teaching multiples of 9 you shouldn’t just use rote learning but point out the internal checksum of multiples of nine (add up all the digits to get a single digit and you get 9, for the simple tables the first digit will be 1 less than the number being multiplied, so 4 x 9 is 36, 3 + 6 is 9, 5 x 9 is forty-something so working backwards 9 - 4 is 5, so 4 x 9 is 45). In addition there’s the “times ten minus one” method: 3 x 9 is the same as 3 x (10 - 1) so 30 - 3 is 27 (and add up the digits to make 9). Teachers need to be allowed to use multiple methods of instruction, and restricting them to only exactly what is in the syllabus is racist because then the only people who get the quality instruction are the rich who can afford out of school tutelage, ie: predominantly white populations due to institutionalised racism in the USA keeping non-white populations poorer than their mostly white neighbours. Yes, there are white people living in poverty but when you compare white to non-white populations in the same region they are still better off. The shorthand in the USA is that any policy which keeps poor people from success is racist because the rich/poor divide in the USA is predominantly along racial lines.
- xphilter 5y agoSo, instead of HN commenters to ask Florida offer evidence that these math books contain CRT (whatever that even means here) people go off on the typical tangents. Let’s get some facts straight: Florida is banning books, blaming it on CRT, and not offering proof. They could, you know, show the offending pages and texts. The fact that they don’t should tell you something.
- chrismeller 5y agoPlease stop saying they’re “banning books” because they’re not approving textbooks. That’s hyperbole and isn’t helpful.
- xphilter 5y agoPlease explain how its hyperbole. If it’s not approved for the school…are teachers allowed to use it? If they’re not allowed to use it, isn’t it banned? Or are you saying because private citizens can buy it at home it’s not banned? If the later, would you be fine with me saying “banning teachers from using these books”?
- chrismeller 5y agoWell if you’re not sure, then here are the simple terms… You say “banning books” and people start thinking about the fascists burning things they disagreed with. This is completely different. All the knowledge is still available in normal books and on the internet, they’re just saying that the math books submitted were not up to their requirements.
- prepend 5y ago> Florida is banning books I don’t think they are banning a book, they just aren’t choosing it for their curriculum. These are very different things.
- stevenalowe 5y ago“The education department described the review process as "transparent," but did not name the rejected textbooks nor provide examples of passages that failed to meet the criteria.” These book are bad, m’kay. Trust us. /s
- Casteil 5y agoI keep seeing articles about this, but none have included any examples of the offending "critical race theory" in question... what gives?
- derevaunseraun 5y agoI really wish they'd give an example of whatever content they're talking about. Like when I took math in K-12 one thing I remember is they'd always try to be multicultural with the names in word problems and didn't just use generic white names like "John", "Adam", etc. If THIS is what they're referring to as CRT, then who cares? They could do something more, like the problems listed here: https://www.radicalmath.org/post/addressing-systemic-racism-s-impact-on-food-insecurity https://www.radicalmath.org/post/addressing-systemic-racism-... For example, something like this: "Given population estimates, how many people from each racial group are likely experiencing food insecurity across the U.S.? In your city/state?" I don't think there's anything bad about this as long as the data is genuine. But I'd love to hear from someone of a different opinion
- Ferrotin 5y agoThe definition of “food security” is a propagandistic construct. > What accounts for the differences in rates by race? Yes let’s ask questions too spicy for Hacker News in public school math class.
- derevaunseraun 5y ago> The definition of “food security” is a propagandistic construct. Not necessarily. Families that rely on food stamps to survive could be considered to have poor food security. How exactly is that propaganda?
- yes_really 5y agoMost of the people outside the US would read "food insecurity" as "there's a sizable possibility that one will starve".
- mangoTangoBango 5y agoIs the obesity rates in the United Sates also a “propagandistic construct”?
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- jwond 5y agoI would like to see the specific textbooks in question here, but for anyone who doubts there are attempts to shove “CRT” or similar ideological issues into math classes, here are a couple of examples: - NYT: Should Social Justice Be Part of Math Education? Proposed guidelines in California would de-emphasize calculus, reject the idea that some children are naturally gifted, and build a connection to social justice. [1] - Math Suffers From White Supremacy, According to a Bill Gates-Funded Course. "White supremacy culture shows up in math classrooms when... The focus is on getting the 'right' answer." [2] [1] https://archive.ph/Dm1HH https://archive.ph/Dm1HH [2] https://www.newsweek.com/math-suffers-white-supremacy-according-bill-gates-funded-course-1571511 https://www.newsweek.com/math-suffers-white-supremacy-accord...
- upsidesinclude 5y agoOf course your comment is being blasted because you actually offer evidence. So many comments seem to question the veracity of the claim and dismiss it entirely as a political move when this is something that is being adopted and used to indoctrinate
- rangersanger 5y agoWho’s blasting it? You’re the only reply. Edit: at the time of me writing the initial response.
- xphilter 5y agoDid you actually read the sources? They don’t remotely support any claim of “crt brainwashing” or in-class materials are filled with “crt.”
- elicash 5y agoThe non-binding guidelines in (1) were proposed, but did they go through? I don't know the answer to this and am curious. As far as (2), you can read the equitablemath.org worksheet here: https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11... It appears that you cut-off a quote. The full quote is: There is a greater focus on getting the "right" answer than understanding concepts and reasoning. You may still disagree with that! But just for the sake of addressing arguments fairly, worth not butchering what people are trying to communicate. It's a fair thing to argue that what matters is students understanding WHY something is right rather than just getting the answer correct.
- moistly 5y agoTexas is the behemoth in school textbook production. I don’t think they’re likely to have allowed CRT into all those math books. Not really their thing, y’know.
- fmitchell0 5y agoFor those who find this and ask the question "What does math have to do with white supremacy?", I will attempt to try and lay out the argument. I'm going to assume you're asking this question in good faith. I understand that the phrase "white supremacy" is equated with the idea that "people who identify as white are superior" (bad). I also understand the immediate reaction is to possibly think "I am not a bad person and I identify as white, so there must be something wrong here". When you then tie it to a concept like math, the next thought then tends to go to "how can a concept, not a person, like math, inherit a bad human trait like superiority"? It can't, so therefore there must be something wrong with these ideas. If you look at the curriculum text from equitablemath.org and peek at page 9: https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11..., there is a nuance here that I'm hoping to clarify to those who may feel the above. First, the argument is not referring to a person, but a culture. Another way to think about it is a system. In this context, the system simply refers to the current methods of teaching. If we all agree that the goal is to encourage as many people as possible to participate in STEM, enjoy it, thrive in it, and feel supported in it and we all agree that the data and studies show that our current system could be improved to accomplish this goal, the next conclusion is to criticize the system of which we teach fundamental concepts, like math. Within our current system (or culture), we teach math a certain way. Some of those ways emphasize independent practice, mistakes are failure, teaching concepts linearly, and/or grading students based on what they don't know. Because a lot of us learned this way and we are in the STEM field, we may ask ourselves "what is wrong with that?" The argument is not that you don't have a legitimate question. The argument is that stopping at the question does not achieve the goal. After years and years of social science study of what prevents people of color from getting into STEM fields (if you don't believe these studies exist, that is ok, but only encourage your own investigation), the argument of "white supremacy culture in math" is providing points of how to center the experiences of people in color within the curriculum of teaching math to increase the thing we all seem to claim we want: the pipeline. As a Black man, its really hard to be a part of this community and see people argue that is a pipeline problem, see scholars provide solutions to address the pipeline, then see those same people say "but why do we have to change anything, why is this relevant?" At this point, it just feels like some people actually don't want a solution. Even if this doesn't work, why are we afraid to try? Isn't that the point of being part of the scientific community? Instead, we're stuck demonizing the motives of people we don't know who are trying to help others who may be outside of our own bubble.
- hereme888 5y agoFlorida bans math books that contain controversial politics for elementary children, and people get angry because...people don't trust those books did contain the disputed info? Florida didn't release the list of banned books? How about we simply wait for those books' authors to complain and then we can identify, read, and judge? The internet is going haywire over something they don't know anything about, it's ridiculous.
- Volundr 5y ago> How about we simply wait for those books' authors to complain and then we can identify, read, and judge? How can they complain, they literally don't know they've been banned. > The internet is going haywire over something they don't know anything about, it's ridiculous. The internet is going haywire about the government banning textbooks while refusing to make public what books and why. I'd say anyone trying to pretend this is ok is being ridiculous.
- hereme888 5y ago> How can they complain, they literally don't know they've been banned. Good point. My thought is they'll find out when their books aren't used in Florida. > The internet is going haywire about the government banning textbooks while refusing to make public what books and why. I'd say anyone trying to pretend this is ok is being ridiculous. The government isn't simply "banning textbooks": they're banning books with controversial political messages being shown to the most psychologically vulnerable population: elementary children. Until we know the details, I have no issue with other math books with no politics being used.
- Volundr 5y ago> The government isn't simply "banning textbooks": they're banning books with controversial political messages being shown to the most psychologically vulnerable population: elementary children. They say they are, while refusing to say what books or why. I fail to see why the government deserves the benefit of the doubt while maintaining this kind secrecy over something that has zero reason not to be transparent if true.