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> [MS Word & Excel] needed some PMs to say No. Uh, why? Both of these applications were and continue to be massively popular. Excel particularly empowers sel

> [MS Word & Excel] needed some PMs to say No. Uh, why? Both of these applications were and continue to be massively popular. Excel particularly empowers self-perceived non-programmers in a way few other programs ever have. What's your basis for asserting that packing these programs full of features was a bad idea? Because it clutters the screen when you turn all the toolbars on? That's a "Doctor it hurts when I poke my eye" -> "Then stop doing that!" situation, not a real argument against lots of features. Virtually nobody understands or uses all of Excel or Word, but so what? Nobody needs to understand more than a tiny fraction of these programs to start getting real utility out of them, evidenced by their massive popularity. The barrier to entry is low, but these programs continue to provide more possibilities as user skill develops. Would the lives of excel pros using those esoteric features really be better if those features were removed and the now dis-empowered excel pros were made to each individually plead their case to programmers, begging for the implementation of functionality axed from Excel?

AlbertCory 5y ago
> The barrier to entry is low Wrong, MS fanboy. There's a whole industry of word processing and spreadsheet apps out there that sell themselves as "easy to use." One guess what they're comparing themselves to. > What's your basis for asserting that packing these programs full of features was a bad idea? When you state an opinion, you don't need to provide a link. It's an opinion. Yours is different. There we go. > Would the lives of excel pros using those esoteric features really be better... They would piece together the functions out of, e.g. exporting to CSV, or writing a Macro, or something. But everyone else who's not a pro wouldn't have to see that feature and feel they OUGHT to understand it. It doesn't mean the functionality is gone; it just means you have to work for it. There's a discipline in meeting constraints. I'm not in any way a Google fanboy, but Docs and Sheets have the right combination of things you really need, and none of the things you don't. So do lots of other products. Even though Word has, supposedly, everything you could ever need, it's still not adequate for writing a book, and I use Vellum for that (with Google Docs as the first draft).
- robonerd 5y ago
  > Wrong, MS fanboy. Oh fuck off. I haven't owned a copy of Windows since Windows 98. > I'm not in any way a Google fanboy, I never insinuated anything of the sort, but when you come out swinging with the insults I guess this is the kind of conversation you're expecting? > There's a whole industry of word processing and spreadsheet apps out there that sell themselves as "easy to use." One guess what they're comparing themselves to. They're comparing themselves to the office suite that hundreds of millions of people at least have successfully learned how to use. Millions of naive school children and experienced typists alike have learned how to do what they need done in MS Word. And for decades, Microsoft Excel has been the backbone of innumerable businesses, from mom and pop to fortune 500. Both of these programs are incredible popular successes no matter what you think of Microsoft. (I happen to hate this company, despite your obnoxious presumptions.) Aside to other commenters, can somebody recommend a kill file extension for hacker news?
  - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
    > Oh fuck off. I haven't owned a copy of Windows since Windows 98. Holy based
  - UIUC_06 5y ago
    Hundreds of millions, no billions of people have eaten at McDonalds. Arguments from popularity don't get very far. OK, rather than me providing a link, just do a DDG search of "ms word crashes." The problem with having a zillion features is that in unusual cases, they don't work. You can't possibly test every combination of features in every version, in every weird case. My editor warned me against using Word, because she's had countless clients whose files have gotten corrupted, irretrievably.
- medstrom 5y ago
  > When you state an opinion, you don't need to provide a link. It's an opinion. Yours is different. There we go. If we try to be charitable and assume your interlocutor knows this perfectly well, what could he/she possibly mean? Easy, they're asking what gave you that opinion. Answer that instead of being so adversarial. > But everyone else who's not a pro wouldn't have to see that feature and feel they OUGHT to understand it. You're generalizing from your own feelings. Can you imagine that lots of people actually don't get this feeling?

AlbertCory 5y ago

> The barrier to entry is low Wrong, MS fanboy. There's a whole industry of word processing and spreadsheet apps out there that sell themselves as "easy to use." One guess what they're comparing themselves to. > What's your basis for asserting that packing these programs full of features was a bad idea? When you state an opinion, you don't need to provide a link. It's an opinion. Yours is different. There we go. > Would the lives of excel pros using those esoteric features really be better... They would piece together the functions out of, e.g. exporting to CSV, or writing a Macro, or something. But everyone else who's not a pro wouldn't have to see that feature and feel they OUGHT to understand it. It doesn't mean the functionality is gone; it just means you have to work for it. There's a discipline in meeting constraints. I'm not in any way a Google fanboy, but Docs and Sheets have the right combination of things you really need, and none of the things you don't. So do lots of other products. Even though Word has, supposedly, everything you could ever need, it's still not adequate for writing a book, and I use Vellum for that (with Google Docs as the first draft).

robonerd 5y ago
> Wrong, MS fanboy. Oh fuck off. I haven't owned a copy of Windows since Windows 98. > I'm not in any way a Google fanboy, I never insinuated anything of the sort, but when you come out swinging with the insults I guess this is the kind of conversation you're expecting? > There's a whole industry of word processing and spreadsheet apps out there that sell themselves as "easy to use." One guess what they're comparing themselves to. They're comparing themselves to the office suite that hundreds of millions of people at least have successfully learned how to use. Millions of naive school children and experienced typists alike have learned how to do what they need done in MS Word. And for decades, Microsoft Excel has been the backbone of innumerable businesses, from mom and pop to fortune 500. Both of these programs are incredible popular successes no matter what you think of Microsoft. (I happen to hate this company, despite your obnoxious presumptions.) Aside to other commenters, can somebody recommend a kill file extension for hacker news?
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  > Oh fuck off. I haven't owned a copy of Windows since Windows 98. Holy based
- UIUC_06 5y ago
  Hundreds of millions, no billions of people have eaten at McDonalds. Arguments from popularity don't get very far. OK, rather than me providing a link, just do a DDG search of "ms word crashes." The problem with having a zillion features is that in unusual cases, they don't work. You can't possibly test every combination of features in every version, in every weird case. My editor warned me against using Word, because she's had countless clients whose files have gotten corrupted, irretrievably.
medstrom 5y ago
> When you state an opinion, you don't need to provide a link. It's an opinion. Yours is different. There we go. If we try to be charitable and assume your interlocutor knows this perfectly well, what could he/she possibly mean? Easy, they're asking what gave you that opinion. Answer that instead of being so adversarial. > But everyone else who's not a pro wouldn't have to see that feature and feel they OUGHT to understand it. You're generalizing from your own feelings. Can you imagine that lots of people actually don't get this feeling?