6 ms·

I think the most famous counter-example would be Netflix in 2012 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20214401 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20214401

by mcintyre1994 5y ago

fortran77 5y ago
And Disney, twice. https://www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1984/06/11/Walt-Disney-Productions-ended-financier-Saul-Steinbergs-takeover-attempt/1284455774400/ https://www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1984/06/11/Walt-Disney-Prod...
scythe 5y ago
Icahn was claiming that Netflix was undervalued. To be fair, he was also angling for an acquisition. But a bid like that usually has a half-life; the market trends to a good price — and indeed, Netflix doubled in value by mid-2013. Elon is arguing that Twitter is mismanaged. He already probably pushed them on the edit button, even though they claimed he didn't. If he's right — and Goldman Sachs seems to agree — he could have an easier go of it next year.
- wwweston 5y ago
  > Elon is arguing that Twitter is mismanaged. Anyone who thinks this is manifestly true should read this take from an ex-CEO of Reddit: https://twitter.com/yishan/status/1514938507407421440 https://twitter.com/yishan/status/1514938507407421440 tl;dr: managing human interaction in any environment with limited accountability is a lot harder than it looks Also, there's the question of by what metrics one would argue it's mismanaged. Revenue and engagement trends? Profitability trends?
  - avs733 5y ago
    By the “I personally don’t like your policies” metric.
  - whymauri 5y ago
    It's not just harder than it looks, I would argue it's one of the hardest problems imaginable.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    I read it and am thoroughly unimpressed. > It is because at Certain Times, given Certain Circumstances, humans will Behave Badly when confronted with Certain Ideas, and if you are The Main Platform Where That Idea is Being Discussed, you cannot do NOTHING, because otherwise humans will continue behaving badly. To paraphrase: "Ideas are dangerous, people cannot be trusted to argue on the internet because it leads to violence, therefore people have to be censored, even if the things they're saying are true". First, the idea that lab-leak theory was related to violence against East Asians is highly, highly dubious. Second, again and again, I see people arguing that we have to dispense with our ideals because they are Too Dangerous. At some point you have to realize that these people are just cowards.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      > I see people arguing that we have to dispense with our ideals because they are Too Dangerous. At some point you have to realize that these people are just cowards. We don’t have to dispense with the ideal. But that’s what it is, an ideal. We have to remain pragmatic.
      - slibhb 5y ago
        It is both funny and sad that this country made it through a revolution, a civil war, various recessions, two world wars, the looming threat of nuclear holocaust, decades of ill-advised military adventurism but apparently it's "people arguing on the internet" that causes us to stop believing in free speech. Like I said, cowards.
        Aeolun 5y ago
        It’s because during those times the crazies could only go shout at a street corner, so most people didn’t have a huge platform.
        salawat 5y ago
        Bullshit. We did just fine, and the populace did just fine ignoring the quacks, just like we'll ignore all the quacks without tech companies censoring everyone. Lord above, we might come to terms with the fact we're all nuts, which would be a far more productive and unifying form of civil discourse.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    As insightful as this thread is, Elons reply is gold: > My most immediate takeaway from this novella of a thread is that Twitter is way overdue for long form tweets!
    - wwweston 5y ago
      It's very clever. It redirects of a raft of points Wong makes into a narrative Musk is pushing. It probably represents one of the reasons why he's so successful. :) It also loses its luster on a bit of reflection -- this particular novella was in fact published on Twitter, and obviously got plenty of attention, including from Musk, so it's not exactly clear that Twitter's an unacceptable venue for novellas. Also, there's other long-form platforms that don't seem to have competed well with Twitter so far. But maybe someone could pull off making such a thing work. Which is why personally what I'd like to see Musk do is take the assets he was going to use to purchase Twitter and build another platform, one with the features and values he's envisioning from the ground up. He might have the juice to pull it off, and it would help diversify the media landscape and discourse culture rather than just being a tug-of-war.
  - scythe 5y ago
    I mean, if you take it as a case for why moderation is hard, that's fair. But while Elon describes himself (identity politics) as a "free speech absolutist", his concrete proposals seem to include things like an edit button, long-form tweets and some monetization strategies. I think the fairer critique of modern Twitter is that it prioritizes the needs of media personalities and PR firms over ordinary users, not that it isn't "free" enough. I am blandly optimistic about the prospects of things being shaken up at Twitter, and for who Elon is, it could easily be someone much worse.
    - wwweston 5y ago
      > his concrete proposals seem to include things like an edit button, long-form tweets and some monetization strategies. This sounds like an opportunity to diversify the media (and discourse) landscape with a different product.
  - aahan5 5y ago
    That's only from a content moderation point of view. I would argue Twitter is incredibly mismanaged from a product POV. Barely any new features, buff Android app (at least for me), and Twitter Blue being pretty useless.

I think the most famous counter-example would be Netflix in 2012 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20214401 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20214401

fortran77 5y ago

And Disney, twice. https://www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1984/06/11/Walt-Disney-Productions-ended-financier-Saul-Steinbergs-takeover-attempt/1284455774400/ https://www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1984/06/11/Walt-Disney-Prod...

scythe 5y ago

Icahn was claiming that Netflix was undervalued. To be fair, he was also angling for an acquisition. But a bid like that usually has a half-life; the market trends to a good price — and indeed, Netflix doubled in value by mid-2013. Elon is arguing that Twitter is mismanaged. He already probably pushed them on the edit button, even though they claimed he didn't. If he's right — and Goldman Sachs seems to agree — he could have an easier go of it next year.

wwweston 5y ago
> Elon is arguing that Twitter is mismanaged. Anyone who thinks this is manifestly true should read this take from an ex-CEO of Reddit: https://twitter.com/yishan/status/1514938507407421440 https://twitter.com/yishan/status/1514938507407421440 tl;dr: managing human interaction in any environment with limited accountability is a lot harder than it looks Also, there's the question of by what metrics one would argue it's mismanaged. Revenue and engagement trends? Profitability trends?
- avs733 5y ago
  By the “I personally don’t like your policies” metric.
- whymauri 5y ago
  It's not just harder than it looks, I would argue it's one of the hardest problems imaginable.
- slibhb 5y ago
  I read it and am thoroughly unimpressed. > It is because at Certain Times, given Certain Circumstances, humans will Behave Badly when confronted with Certain Ideas, and if you are The Main Platform Where That Idea is Being Discussed, you cannot do NOTHING, because otherwise humans will continue behaving badly. To paraphrase: "Ideas are dangerous, people cannot be trusted to argue on the internet because it leads to violence, therefore people have to be censored, even if the things they're saying are true". First, the idea that lab-leak theory was related to violence against East Asians is highly, highly dubious. Second, again and again, I see people arguing that we have to dispense with our ideals because they are Too Dangerous. At some point you have to realize that these people are just cowards.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    > I see people arguing that we have to dispense with our ideals because they are Too Dangerous. At some point you have to realize that these people are just cowards. We don’t have to dispense with the ideal. But that’s what it is, an ideal. We have to remain pragmatic.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      It is both funny and sad that this country made it through a revolution, a civil war, various recessions, two world wars, the looming threat of nuclear holocaust, decades of ill-advised military adventurism but apparently it's "people arguing on the internet" that causes us to stop believing in free speech. Like I said, cowards.
      - Aeolun 5y ago
        It’s because during those times the crazies could only go shout at a street corner, so most people didn’t have a huge platform.
        salawat 5y ago
        Bullshit. We did just fine, and the populace did just fine ignoring the quacks, just like we'll ignore all the quacks without tech companies censoring everyone. Lord above, we might come to terms with the fact we're all nuts, which would be a far more productive and unifying form of civil discourse.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  As insightful as this thread is, Elons reply is gold: > My most immediate takeaway from this novella of a thread is that Twitter is way overdue for long form tweets!
  - wwweston 5y ago
    It's very clever. It redirects of a raft of points Wong makes into a narrative Musk is pushing. It probably represents one of the reasons why he's so successful. :) It also loses its luster on a bit of reflection -- this particular novella was in fact published on Twitter, and obviously got plenty of attention, including from Musk, so it's not exactly clear that Twitter's an unacceptable venue for novellas. Also, there's other long-form platforms that don't seem to have competed well with Twitter so far. But maybe someone could pull off making such a thing work. Which is why personally what I'd like to see Musk do is take the assets he was going to use to purchase Twitter and build another platform, one with the features and values he's envisioning from the ground up. He might have the juice to pull it off, and it would help diversify the media landscape and discourse culture rather than just being a tug-of-war.
- scythe 5y ago
  I mean, if you take it as a case for why moderation is hard, that's fair. But while Elon describes himself (identity politics) as a "free speech absolutist", his concrete proposals seem to include things like an edit button, long-form tweets and some monetization strategies. I think the fairer critique of modern Twitter is that it prioritizes the needs of media personalities and PR firms over ordinary users, not that it isn't "free" enough. I am blandly optimistic about the prospects of things being shaken up at Twitter, and for who Elon is, it could easily be someone much worse.
  - wwweston 5y ago
    > his concrete proposals seem to include things like an edit button, long-form tweets and some monetization strategies. This sounds like an opportunity to diversify the media (and discourse) landscape with a different product.
- aahan5 5y ago
  That's only from a content moderation point of view. I would argue Twitter is incredibly mismanaged from a product POV. Barely any new features, buff Android app (at least for me), and Twitter Blue being pretty useless.