4 ms·

Its not entitlement. It’s for their safety and courtesy, telling them that a car is passing because they (the cyclists) aren’t following the rules and interfer

Its not entitlement. It’s for their safety and courtesy, telling them that a car is passing because they (the cyclists) aren’t following the rules and interfering with the flow of traffic. At minimum, know that you’re giving up your right of way as a cyclist.

wpietri 5y ago
As I pointed out, it may well be within the rules. Yes, cyclists should be courteous. But they also deserve to be safe, and sometimes that safety requires occupying a full lane so aggro drivers don't pass them going too fast and too close. The truth is that a lot of drivers only respect other people in cars, so sometimes cyclists have to hold space like cars if they want to be safe.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  Yes and I’m saying the cyclists bear some of the decision and outcomes. Even when everyone tries following the rules, accidents happen between cars and “x”. When cyclists deliberately break the rules designed for their own safety then what? The law is small comfort to someone maimed or dead. It’s why I tell people to assume the other driver/cyclist are unaware and will choose to make the “wrong” choice, until proven otherwise.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    How are you not getting that cyclists using a full lane on a narrow street are not breaking the rules, at least here in CA? And that even they were breaking a rule somewhere, it may be the right choice for their own safety, because the rules are mainly made with car traffic in mind? I get that you as a driver may not like it because it's inconvenient for you. But that's no reason to just ignore the actual rules and preemptively blame cyclists for the outcome of being maimed or dead.
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      I’m not based in California. Cyclists going side-by-side in a single-lane (per-direction) is violating the rules. See https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-summary-of-ny-state-bike-laws#safepassing https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-sum...
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        > Persons riding bicycles or skating or gliding on in-line skates upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast. You linked this to support your argument? It does say to switch to single file while being overtaken. But in the scenario you described, nobody was overtaking them when they set up side by side.
        nobodyandproud 5y ago
        > if a usable bicycle or in-line skate lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway or upon a usable right-hand shoulder in such a manner as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn or when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions that would make it unsafe to continue along near the right-hand curb or edge. Cyclists do not have an unlimited right of way in NY and are not allowed to just take-up a lane arbitrarily.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        But that doesn't say anything about side by side. It sounds like, when there is a usable edge, that rule both allows side by side on the edge and disallows single file in a lane.
        nobodyandproud 5y ago
        You must have missed this quoted section: “as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic” Nevermind that the road signs also say single file.
matsemann 5y ago
Yeah, I bet you do it out of courtesy... They're not "interfering with the flow of traffic". At that point, the flow of traffic is the speed the cyclists are keeping. You're the one interfering.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  You’re 100% not arguing in good faith, but I’ll answer anyway. https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-summary-of-ny-state-bike-laws#safepassing https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-sum... A quarter-second honk gets cyclists’ attention without startling them. Some states and cities actually care about the flow of traffic, because it will cause hourslong gridlock otherwise.

wpietri 5y ago

As I pointed out, it may well be within the rules. Yes, cyclists should be courteous. But they also deserve to be safe, and sometimes that safety requires occupying a full lane so aggro drivers don't pass them going too fast and too close. The truth is that a lot of drivers only respect other people in cars, so sometimes cyclists have to hold space like cars if they want to be safe.

nobodyandproud 5y ago
Yes and I’m saying the cyclists bear some of the decision and outcomes. Even when everyone tries following the rules, accidents happen between cars and “x”. When cyclists deliberately break the rules designed for their own safety then what? The law is small comfort to someone maimed or dead. It’s why I tell people to assume the other driver/cyclist are unaware and will choose to make the “wrong” choice, until proven otherwise.
- wpietri 5y ago
  How are you not getting that cyclists using a full lane on a narrow street are not breaking the rules, at least here in CA? And that even they were breaking a rule somewhere, it may be the right choice for their own safety, because the rules are mainly made with car traffic in mind? I get that you as a driver may not like it because it's inconvenient for you. But that's no reason to just ignore the actual rules and preemptively blame cyclists for the outcome of being maimed or dead.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    I’m not based in California. Cyclists going side-by-side in a single-lane (per-direction) is violating the rules. See https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-summary-of-ny-state-bike-laws#safepassing https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-sum...
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > Persons riding bicycles or skating or gliding on in-line skates upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast. You linked this to support your argument? It does say to switch to single file while being overtaken. But in the scenario you described, nobody was overtaking them when they set up side by side.
      - nobodyandproud 5y ago
        > if a usable bicycle or in-line skate lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway or upon a usable right-hand shoulder in such a manner as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn or when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions that would make it unsafe to continue along near the right-hand curb or edge. Cyclists do not have an unlimited right of way in NY and are not allowed to just take-up a lane arbitrarily.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        But that doesn't say anything about side by side. It sounds like, when there is a usable edge, that rule both allows side by side on the edge and disallows single file in a lane.
        nobodyandproud 5y ago
        You must have missed this quoted section: “as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic” Nevermind that the road signs also say single file.

matsemann 5y ago

Yeah, I bet you do it out of courtesy... They're not "interfering with the flow of traffic". At that point, the flow of traffic is the speed the cyclists are keeping. You're the one interfering.

nobodyandproud 5y ago
You’re 100% not arguing in good faith, but I’ll answer anyway. https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-summary-of-ny-state-bike-laws#safepassing https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-sum... A quarter-second honk gets cyclists’ attention without startling them. Some states and cities actually care about the flow of traffic, because it will cause hourslong gridlock otherwise.