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Just look at Russia - a real Nazist regime while most Russians conveniently believe they are fighting world Nazism. The truth is actually available to them, yet

by trhway 5y ago

Just look at Russia - a real Nazist regime while most Russians conveniently believe they are fighting world Nazism. The truth is actually available to them, yet it is so scary and inconvenient that they instinctively choose to ignore it. Their propagandists on state TV even stated recently discussing Ukraine that Nazism = political nationalism + totalitarism. Which obviously doesn't apply to Ukraine, yet absolutely describes Russia.

philosopher1234 5y ago
If you hate something about yourself, maybe it affords some reassurance to see that thing in someone else and then try and destroy them. I wonder if thats what's going on with some of these Russians.
skissane 5y ago
I support Ukraine and oppose Putin - but Putin isn’t a Nazi. His ideology, in its details, is quite different from that of Nazism. Russian propaganda that “Ukraine is a Nazi state” is stupid, but you have to understand that “Nazism” means something quite different to Russians than to most Westerners. Most Westerners focus on the Nazis’ genocidal Antisemitism; in Russia, the focus is more on the Nazis’ genocidal Russophobia. That different focus makes the propaganda seem not quite as ludicrous as it does in the West, especially when one considers the language policy issue (encouraging the use of Ukrainian language over Russian), which the Russian government paints as Russophobic discrimination.
- somethingreen 5y ago
  The only difference is that German Nazis believed Jews were themselves evil, and Russian Nazis believe Ukrainians are irreversibly corrupted by evil West. The exact flavors of their victim complex and exceptionalism are irrelevant.
  - watwut 5y ago
    There are more differences tho. Nazism was not just about Jews. There was a lot more to the ideology: race hierarchy, need for living space, survival of the fittest ideology and so on. Russia now resembles more Tsarists imperial wars mixed with communist practices.
    - trhway 5y ago
      if you understand Russian - on the "new people, new Russia" https://rutube.ru/video/6a82ce7cc138125d6c9d0f3a47c5e74e/ https://rutube.ru/video/6a82ce7cc138125d6c9d0f3a47c5e74e/ (by one of the main Russian propagandist who is every day on the state TV) where they also talk about "new blood" being not IT/programmers/entrepreneurs/artists/etc., instead it is those "heroes" of the war "who will break that needs to be broken and will build what needs to be built" . If you ever watched "Man in the High Castle" - that has significant overlap with "The Year 0".
- trhway 5y ago
  >Putin isn’t a Nazi. His ideology, in its details, is quite different from that of Nazism. no. Just read his war declaration speech. Classic Nazism. They had "master race" and inferior "races" of Jews and Slavics. Putin has master nation of Russians and inferior Ukrainians. And he is using that the same was as Hitler as a reason to claim the master race's/nation's right to the territory and to conduct ethnical cleansing and genocide there. >especially when one considers the language policy issue (encouraging the use of Ukrainian language over Russian) The "War and Peace" opens with the scene of an aristocratic party in St.Peterburg where French language - de-facto language of Russian nobility in the years before - is totally banned because of Napoleon invasion.
  - skissane 5y ago
    To Putin, Ukrainians are Russians who have been corrupted by anti-Russian influences into believing themselves to be a different people, and the Ukrainian language is a corrupted form of Russian (Russian with some Polish mixed in) Hitler didn’t see Jews as Germans who had been corrupted into viewing themselves as non-Germans. On the contrary, he insisted full-blooded Jews could never be Germans, no matter how much they wanted to be-even if they completely rejected their Jewish identity. There was a tiny minority of Jews (the Association of German National Jews) who supported Hitler - how did he repay them for their support? He sent them to the camps.
    - watwut 5y ago
      I don't know why this is down voted. Imo, it is accurate. Hitler is not the only bad genocidal man in world history. It is super possible for Russia to be fascist, genocidal while also having important differences against Hitlers ideology. Being different then Hitler does not make one good or defensible.
    - trhway 5y ago
      >To Putin, Ukrainians are Russians who have been corrupted by anti-Russian influences into believing themselves to be a different people, and the Ukrainian language is a corrupted form of Russian (Russian with some Polish mixed in) That sounds almost benign, like just a minor difference of opinions, when taken that way out of the context. The context though is the declaration that anybody resisting that conversion back to Russian and insisting on being Ukrainian is to be killed. Another, wider context, is the deep contempt (which Russians in theie Great Russia chauvinism fail to notice as well as to acknowledge when pointed out to) Russians have for Ukrainians in general which is well illustrated by usage of "hohly" with various level of offensiveness for example, as well as pretty deep mutual anymosity between Russians and Western Ukrainians. (Note: i grew up in USSR as a Russian by mentality, and i'm half-Ukrainian by blood, so i have some idea what i'm talking about here) Anyway, Nazism isn't about why some are deemed inferior. Nazism is about deeming some inferior and acting violently upon that belief.
- imtringued 5y ago
  The Nazis practiced social darwinism which goes way beyond hating and killing jews. If you were to simplify it, it would be nationalism on steroids with a deep hate for all other nations and the desire to conquer all of them.
  - skissane 5y ago
    > If you were to simplify it, it would be nationalism on steroids with a deep hate for all other nations That is a huge oversimplification. Nazis viewed Slavs as inferiors to be enslaved, but they saw Scandinavians much more positively. Hitler admired the British Empire, and prior to the outbreak of WW2, Nazi propaganda was pro-British - Hitler had hoped to recruit Britain as an ally, and was disappointed when it became an enemy instead. Nazi policy towards conquered nations was complex, ranging from genocidal extermination at one extreme, to promoting enhanced minority rights at the other (which they did for the Frisians in the Netherlands and the Bretons in France). Even for Slavs the policy wasn’t purely enslavement - some were to be forcibly assimilated as Germans instead (the Sorbs), and the Nazis were keen to play different Slavic groups off against each other (which is how some Ukrainian nationalists ended up volunteering to fight for the Nazis)

by trhway 5y ago

philosopher1234 5y ago

If you hate something about yourself, maybe it affords some reassurance to see that thing in someone else and then try and destroy them. I wonder if thats what's going on with some of these Russians.

skissane 5y ago

I support Ukraine and oppose Putin - but Putin isn’t a Nazi. His ideology, in its details, is quite different from that of Nazism. Russian propaganda that “Ukraine is a Nazi state” is stupid, but you have to understand that “Nazism” means something quite different to Russians than to most Westerners. Most Westerners focus on the Nazis’ genocidal Antisemitism; in Russia, the focus is more on the Nazis’ genocidal Russophobia. That different focus makes the propaganda seem not quite as ludicrous as it does in the West, especially when one considers the language policy issue (encouraging the use of Ukrainian language over Russian), which the Russian government paints as Russophobic discrimination.

somethingreen 5y ago
The only difference is that German Nazis believed Jews were themselves evil, and Russian Nazis believe Ukrainians are irreversibly corrupted by evil West. The exact flavors of their victim complex and exceptionalism are irrelevant.
- watwut 5y ago
  There are more differences tho. Nazism was not just about Jews. There was a lot more to the ideology: race hierarchy, need for living space, survival of the fittest ideology and so on. Russia now resembles more Tsarists imperial wars mixed with communist practices.
  - trhway 5y ago
    if you understand Russian - on the "new people, new Russia" https://rutube.ru/video/6a82ce7cc138125d6c9d0f3a47c5e74e/ https://rutube.ru/video/6a82ce7cc138125d6c9d0f3a47c5e74e/ (by one of the main Russian propagandist who is every day on the state TV) where they also talk about "new blood" being not IT/programmers/entrepreneurs/artists/etc., instead it is those "heroes" of the war "who will break that needs to be broken and will build what needs to be built" . If you ever watched "Man in the High Castle" - that has significant overlap with "The Year 0".
trhway 5y ago
>Putin isn’t a Nazi. His ideology, in its details, is quite different from that of Nazism. no. Just read his war declaration speech. Classic Nazism. They had "master race" and inferior "races" of Jews and Slavics. Putin has master nation of Russians and inferior Ukrainians. And he is using that the same was as Hitler as a reason to claim the master race's/nation's right to the territory and to conduct ethnical cleansing and genocide there. >especially when one considers the language policy issue (encouraging the use of Ukrainian language over Russian) The "War and Peace" opens with the scene of an aristocratic party in St.Peterburg where French language - de-facto language of Russian nobility in the years before - is totally banned because of Napoleon invasion.
- skissane 5y ago
  To Putin, Ukrainians are Russians who have been corrupted by anti-Russian influences into believing themselves to be a different people, and the Ukrainian language is a corrupted form of Russian (Russian with some Polish mixed in) Hitler didn’t see Jews as Germans who had been corrupted into viewing themselves as non-Germans. On the contrary, he insisted full-blooded Jews could never be Germans, no matter how much they wanted to be-even if they completely rejected their Jewish identity. There was a tiny minority of Jews (the Association of German National Jews) who supported Hitler - how did he repay them for their support? He sent them to the camps.
  - watwut 5y ago
    I don't know why this is down voted. Imo, it is accurate. Hitler is not the only bad genocidal man in world history. It is super possible for Russia to be fascist, genocidal while also having important differences against Hitlers ideology. Being different then Hitler does not make one good or defensible.
  - trhway 5y ago
    >To Putin, Ukrainians are Russians who have been corrupted by anti-Russian influences into believing themselves to be a different people, and the Ukrainian language is a corrupted form of Russian (Russian with some Polish mixed in) That sounds almost benign, like just a minor difference of opinions, when taken that way out of the context. The context though is the declaration that anybody resisting that conversion back to Russian and insisting on being Ukrainian is to be killed. Another, wider context, is the deep contempt (which Russians in theie Great Russia chauvinism fail to notice as well as to acknowledge when pointed out to) Russians have for Ukrainians in general which is well illustrated by usage of "hohly" with various level of offensiveness for example, as well as pretty deep mutual anymosity between Russians and Western Ukrainians. (Note: i grew up in USSR as a Russian by mentality, and i'm half-Ukrainian by blood, so i have some idea what i'm talking about here) Anyway, Nazism isn't about why some are deemed inferior. Nazism is about deeming some inferior and acting violently upon that belief.
imtringued 5y ago
The Nazis practiced social darwinism which goes way beyond hating and killing jews. If you were to simplify it, it would be nationalism on steroids with a deep hate for all other nations and the desire to conquer all of them.
- skissane 5y ago
  > If you were to simplify it, it would be nationalism on steroids with a deep hate for all other nations That is a huge oversimplification. Nazis viewed Slavs as inferiors to be enslaved, but they saw Scandinavians much more positively. Hitler admired the British Empire, and prior to the outbreak of WW2, Nazi propaganda was pro-British - Hitler had hoped to recruit Britain as an ally, and was disappointed when it became an enemy instead. Nazi policy towards conquered nations was complex, ranging from genocidal extermination at one extreme, to promoting enhanced minority rights at the other (which they did for the Frisians in the Netherlands and the Bretons in France). Even for Slavs the policy wasn’t purely enslavement - some were to be forcibly assimilated as Germans instead (the Sorbs), and the Nazis were keen to play different Slavic groups off against each other (which is how some Ukrainian nationalists ended up volunteering to fight for the Nazis)