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The most bizarre part of this whole saga has been the legions of online commentators who evidently take Elon at his word when he says he is trying operate in th
by browserman 4y ago
The most bizarre part of this whole saga has been the legions of online commentators who evidently take Elon at his word when he says he is trying operate in the public interest, or that his actual aims are what he says they are.
It seems patently obvious to me that all of the actions he's taken over the entire time he's been in the public eye have shown him to be an incredibly vindictive egomaniac and serial liar interested only in his own aggrandizement. I find the apparently deep well of credibility he has with the public to be completely baffling.
- koolba 4y ago> It seems patently obvious to me that all of the actions he's taken over the entire time he's been in the public eye have shown him to be an incredibly vindictive egomaniac and serial liar interested only in his own aggrandizement. I still think the world, and the USA in particular, would be better with him at the helm than the current biased leadership. Would be more fun too!
- JasonFruit 4y agoHe's a vindictive egomaniac and serial liar with a sense of fun, a good dose of perspective, and a ton of panache. I might not trust him, but he's great entertainment.
- tsol 4y agoI think people exaggerate about him way too much in each direction. He's not the smartest man alive, and he isn't a fraud on par with Elizabeth Holmes. He's a businessperson who's clever at times and childish at times, like most people. I have yet to see a politician or company head that is infallible. All that being said I don't think he'd make a great politician-- just because you're a brilliant engineer doesn't mean you're gonna know how to run a country
- JasonFruit 4y agoI think he appeals to the people who want him as a politician for the same reason Trump appealed to his supporters: they're dissatisfied with politics as usual, they want change at almost any cost, and he's a middle finger at the people they dislike. That's not good justification for a gamble with the whole country, but these people see it as time for a Hail Mary. Sometimes I feel that way too; then I put down my phone and take a walk.
- rurp 4y agoThis is very well said. People who can create a cult of personality and offer simple, but uselessly vague, solutions to complex problems are in vogue these days.
- nebula8804 4y ago>Sometimes I feel that way too; then I put down my phone and take a walk. Thats because you can. What about the people trapped in terrible dying towns with no prospects for the future? People whose friends and families are drowning with opioid addictions. People who twice voted for newcomers like Obama and are now considered racists/traitors for trying something...anything to stop the bleeding.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoThe US is currently run by vindictive egomaniacs and serial liars. At least Musk has a sense of fun!
- arbitrage 4y agoHow have you experienced bias from the current administration?
- koolba 4y agoThere's countless examples. A big one from the 2020 election was banning any organization that tweeted about (at the time candidate) Biden's son Hunter's infamous laptop: https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/how-big-tech-media-and-dems-killed-the-hunter-biden-story/ https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/how-big-tech-media-and-dems-ki... Clearly that was bias to suppress negative information about potential corrupt dealings of Joe Biden's extended family and likely him as well. A more recent cultural example would be banning the satirical website Bablyon Bee for a joke article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/petersuciu/2022/03/21/the-babylon-bees-twitter-account-was-suspended-but-that-made-its-story-go-viral/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/petersuciu/2022/03/21/the-babyl... Because that contrasts with the leaderships own personal beliefs, jokes like that are a bannable offense. But, an equally crass joke about Lindsey Graham being a homosexual because of his accent by Jon Stewart would be perfectly fine: https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/243250-why-is-it-ok-for-jon-stewart-to-make-lindsey-graham-gay-jokes/ https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/243250-why-...
- arbitrage 4y agoSo this affected you personally? You were banned from twitter?
- coolso 4y agoAsk not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.
- zionic 4y ago>So this affected you personally? I hate this line of reasoning, and I also hate that it's so prevelantly used in our legal system (we have a legal system, not a justice system FWIW). This same flawed line of thought has prevented lawsuits against the government for their illegal spying. Since "no one can prove they were harmed", and "proving you were harmed is against the law" we're stuck. Consider the following: A pending meteor impact harms absolutely no one until right before it impacts and harms everyone.
- matwood 4y ago>current biased leadership. Instead the leadership would just be biased towards Elon's whims. It would definitely be entertaining, but I'm not sure why people assume it would suddenly be more free and open. He already blocks many who disagree with him. I doubt he would have let the kid stay on who was Tweeting his public jet movements.
- adh636 4y agoPatently obvious? I think there are multiple plausible explanations. Building things people want gives credibility. I find it more bizarre people have such passionate anger towards others.
- browserman 4y agoI don't have 'anger' towards him, although I certainly have an opinion about whether he is trustworthy or genuinely civic-minded, as I do about many other incredibly powerful political-business operators who collectively set the terms of public life. Of course, I'm also baffled that people credit him as being a 'builder' rather than an extremely successful marketer and financial engineer, especially at the expense of all the people who, you know, actually do the building...
- rio517 4y agoYou think he didn't build anything? He wrote the code for his first startup and is the Chief designer at SpaceX. Listen to some of his interviews, especially by everyday astronaut. He is indeed the Chief Deigner. I don't think he is a good marketer - he is more middle of the road. I think people say that to discredit him. Have you watched any of his full length presentations. He is terrible. What he is good at is having a vision he believes in. He sells that well.
- Veedrac 4y agoMusk is an engineer. That is just a fact about him. There are repeated comments to this effect from people who have worked with him, including famously well regarded engineers. If you watch his 3-part Starbase tour with Everyday Astronaut it is incredibly obvious. Some quotes to this effect, though certainly not all, have been collated at [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
- morelisp 4y agoDo you think engineers are fundamentally/inherently "trustworthy or genuinely civic-minded"? If not, how does this concern browserman's point?
- fullshark 4y agoHe's gotten results where others have provided only talk.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoYou see this sort of comment a lot. It's a non-sequitur that seems the be the answer to any criticism of Musk and his actions.
- WalterBright 4y agoHe's built an electric car company and cheap reusable rockets. Nobody else has. What have his critics accomplished?
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoYep, that's the one I was thinking of. The guy I replied to was a weaker version of it but yours is essentially canonical.
- dijonman2 4y agoI want the zealots at Twitter who don’t believe in free speech to leave. Musk is right on this one, I hope he succeeds in taking it over.
- browserman 4y agoHN also has fairly strictly enforced guidelines. Do you think dang et. all 'don't believe in free speech'?
- dijonman2 4y agoA lot of people here on HN are anti free speech.
- _-david-_ 4y agoI'm not who you are responding to, but I think it is a different scenario. HN has a very specific and limited topic range that is allowed and documented. There is some subjective things in what is allowed, but it is generally understood. People are not complaining about that. Nobody is suggesting HN should allow general sports news for example. Twitter on the other hand is a general forum and so it should allow a broad amount of topics. If Twitter was a specific and targeted platform for cat pictures nobody would have an issue if they banned politics.
- tsimionescu 4y agoThis is not even about the topics. HN has very clear moderation rules about tone of comments for example, rules against astro-turfing, rules about accusations of astro-turfing, and many others. Comments have to be substantive, otherwise they are voted down. Comments must not encourage flame-bait, otherwise they are removed. HN is very highly moderated and you could even say tone-policed, and that is a major part of why many of us here like it.
- mrtranscendence 4y agoEven Hacker News restricts abusive behavior, whether or not it's technically on topic. There are limits above and beyond an acceptable range of topics. Maybe I could get away with more here than Twitter, but not all behavior is permitted.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoElon's "fans" are legion, and are not driven by logic.
- revscat 4y agoWhere are they? I see them failed against multiple times a day, but only see the complaints about them, and not the actual subject of those complaints.
- WalterBright 4y agoI'm an Elon fan. I keep trying to buy SpaceX stock (it's privately held) and don't even care if I lose the money. I just want to be part of the action.
- Veedrac 4y agoMusk has a long history of just saying what he means. He often fails to deliver on things that were too ambitious, or pivots to better ideas in time, but that's entirely different than what you are suggesting.
- tsimionescu 4y agoHe has a long history of outright lies that he presents as visionary ambition. For example, at the time he was promising that Tesla's with full self driving, available one year from then, would act as robotaxis and bring their owners enough money to recoup their investment in a year, he was obviously lying through his teeth - he knew full well that nothing like that will ever happen. Similarly, his lies about starship being used as an earth-to-earth mass transportation system are equally transparent. Not to mention the time he lied about financial plans for Tesla with the express purpose of manipulating the stock price, such as the Twitter thread that cost him his nominal role as chairman of the board.
- AlexandrB 4y agoI'm not a fan of Elon Musk, but I think his greatest flaw is hubris. I don't think he was consciously lying about things like Tesla FSD. I think he thought he would actually do it in the time he predicted but he overestimated his own abilities and domain knowledge. Having said that, after so many past exaggerations one would hope he would have more self-awareness by now. I guess not.
- tsimionescu 4y ago> I think he thought he would actually do it in the time he predicted but he overestimated his own abilities and domain knowledge. If he truly believed that a Tesla would recuperate its value in one year by the profit it would make as a robotaxi, he wouldn't have sold any Teslas, as they would make MUCH more money by running a robotaxi fleet than by selling cars.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
- nodesocket 4y agoThe most bizarre part of this whole saga has been the legions of online commentators who appear to be persistently outraged, say they will leave Twitter if Elon buys it. It amounts to throwing a childish temper tantrum in my book. Free speech doesn’t mean one side gets to decide what’s speech. For years liberal billionaires have been buying traditional media (newspapers), but as soon as Elon who slightly offends their political and personality identity attempts to buy what is currently relevant media they lose their minds. Smell that hypocrisy?
- snotrockets 4y ago“Free speech” can have a few meanings. There's the 1A one, where the government isn't to restrict your speech, and you can argue about absolutism (fire in a theater, etc.) And there's the suggestion everyone should get a free platform, and suffer no consequences for whatever they say. In other words, acting like a ten year old (or not even that. Some 10yo are much smarter than that, and realize their acts have consequences)
- _-david-_ 4y agoNobody is suggesting you shouldn't have consequences for what you say. People are saying you shouldn't be banned for things that legal.
- snotrockets 4y agoFire in a crowded theater, xenophobic comments to a trigger happy crowd…
- _-david-_ 4y agoI'm not sure what are you getting at?
- theianjohnson 4y agoIs that not a consequence? Private business and all that
- moogly 4y agoIt's rare, but not new; Steve Jobs was also worshipped as some kind of infallible God-King. It seems to me there is a lot of overlap between their two flocks.
- almost_usual 4y agoElon Musk has a cult of followers. Obviously SpaceX and Tesla have done incredible things but it doesn’t justify blindly following whatever Elon wants to do. Honestly the hardcore Elon orthodox is annoying. It reminds me of the obnoxious atheist who has to always tell everyone how wrong and dumb they are. It only detracts positive outcomes and causes more resistance.
- WalterBright 4y ago> it doesn’t justify blindly following whatever Elon wants to do. Actually, it does. When someone starts multiple impossible companies, and makes big successes out of them, it's not random chance anymore. I'm willing to bet on the man. Bill Gates pivoted Microsoft 3 times, each time led to orders of magnitude increases in the company's value. 3 times is no longer chance, it's the man. Ditto for Steve Jobs.
- almost_usual 4y agoSo Elon Musk is gospel, no skepticism towards any decision he makes. Sorry, I can’t get on board with this, it’s fanaticism.
- WalterBright 4y agoLet's take Michael Jordan. He wins 3 seasons of basketball in a row. Would wanting him playing on your team be good sense, or fanaticism? My bets on Gates, Jobs, Bezos, and Musk continuing to be winners has so far paid off.
- almost_usual 4y agoHell yes I’d want him on my basketball team. Do I want Michael Jordan dictating a social media platform that has influence over the world? I don’t know?
- at-fates-hands 4y ago>> It seems patently obvious to me that all of the actions he's taken over the entire time he's been in the public eye have shown him to be an incredibly vindictive egomaniac and serial liar interested only in his own aggrandizement. Sounds remarkably like Jack Dorsey.
- memish 4y agoWhat lies? Let's iterate through them. If you're referring to the funding secured thing, that was true. Watch his TED talk from yesterday where he explains that he was forced to concede by the SF SEC.