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I really don't see very many traffic law violations from cyclists, and once you put aside nitpicking about stop signs, the number gets extremely low. Each time

by bri3d 5y ago

I really don't see very many traffic law violations from cyclists, and once you put aside nitpicking about stop signs, the number gets extremely low. Each time a cyclist has annoyed me or created an extremely dangerous situation of their own accord, it mostly just came down to poor route selection by cyclists, which represents an infrastructure problem, or exactly one traffic law violation: speeding. Cyclists riding in packs represent a route selection and availability issue. Large groups of cyclists have to decide between being annoying or being dangerous every time they ride on a road without a bike lane or large shoulder. Whether they're riding two or three abreast (in which case everyone just has to wait for them, the annoying choice), or single file in a line (in which case vehicles have to cross the center line for a very long time to pass safely, the dangerous choice), there is no safe and friendly way for them to coexist on these routes. Now, of course, these cyclists did make the decision to do this - so, the debate here becomes fairly existential. Personally as a cyclist, I avoid these roads and situations, but I'm not convinced that "these people shouldn't be doing this" is a societally beneficial option here. Cyclists who speed aggressively do really annoy me. Both on footpaths, where they build animosity with pedestrians and create dangerous collisions, and on mountain descents, where they regularly out-ride their sight lines and braking ability.

nobodyandproud 5y ago
The signs say single file; but a duo or trio of cyclists decide the rules don’t apply to them. It’s a danger to them, to drivers, and to other cyclists (the ones coming down the other direction). In my experience it’s not a constant problem but it’s not a trivially small number either.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  How is riding side by side in a lane dangerous?
  - bri3d 5y ago
    When there's a dedicated bike lane or a wide shoulder, riding side by side impedes car traffic unnecessarily. In this situation, when cyclists are riding single file, vehicles can pass without needing to enter the opposing lane. Riding two or three abreast, vehicles cannot pass without needing to enter the opposing lane. In the absence of a bike lane or wide shoulder, I don't feel that it matters much as it's just an unsafe situation regardless - there's an argument that a large group in a pack is shorter and therefore safer and easier to pass, an argument that having to swing "wide" into the opposing lane is more dangerous, an argument that cyclists in this situation simply should not be passed (in which case IMO they should pull out at the next opportunity, just as a slow motor vehicle would be required to do in many states), and an argument that the situation shouldn't exist to start with.
    - Rebelgecko 5y ago
      Is it illegal for cyclists to take the lane where you live? If you're doing that I don't understand why it makes a difference if it's 1 person taking the lane or 2 abreast. Either way the lane is taken. Trying to leave a fraction of a lane open to drivers just seems like a good way to get sideswiped
      - rsanek 5y ago
        I'm not sure what the laws are in the rest of the country / world, but at least in California you cannot simply take the full lane as a cyclist at any time. There are specific situations where you can -- such as to avoid a hazard in the bike lane or when turning at an intersection -- but you can't ride in the middle of the lane always. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22111 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio.... https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21208 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio....
        Rebelgecko 5y ago
        If I'm parsing that correctly, those limitations on taking the lane are only for roads that have real bicycle lanes. For the vast majority of roads, it's legal to take the full lane.

by bri3d 5y ago

nobodyandproud 5y ago

The signs say single file; but a duo or trio of cyclists decide the rules don’t apply to them. It’s a danger to them, to drivers, and to other cyclists (the ones coming down the other direction). In my experience it’s not a constant problem but it’s not a trivially small number either.

Dylan16807 5y ago
How is riding side by side in a lane dangerous?
- bri3d 5y ago
  When there's a dedicated bike lane or a wide shoulder, riding side by side impedes car traffic unnecessarily. In this situation, when cyclists are riding single file, vehicles can pass without needing to enter the opposing lane. Riding two or three abreast, vehicles cannot pass without needing to enter the opposing lane. In the absence of a bike lane or wide shoulder, I don't feel that it matters much as it's just an unsafe situation regardless - there's an argument that a large group in a pack is shorter and therefore safer and easier to pass, an argument that having to swing "wide" into the opposing lane is more dangerous, an argument that cyclists in this situation simply should not be passed (in which case IMO they should pull out at the next opportunity, just as a slow motor vehicle would be required to do in many states), and an argument that the situation shouldn't exist to start with.
  - Rebelgecko 5y ago
    Is it illegal for cyclists to take the lane where you live? If you're doing that I don't understand why it makes a difference if it's 1 person taking the lane or 2 abreast. Either way the lane is taken. Trying to leave a fraction of a lane open to drivers just seems like a good way to get sideswiped
    - rsanek 5y ago
      I'm not sure what the laws are in the rest of the country / world, but at least in California you cannot simply take the full lane as a cyclist at any time. There are specific situations where you can -- such as to avoid a hazard in the bike lane or when turning at an intersection -- but you can't ride in the middle of the lane always. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22111 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio.... https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21208 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio....
      - Rebelgecko 5y ago
        If I'm parsing that correctly, those limitations on taking the lane are only for roads that have real bicycle lanes. For the vast majority of roads, it's legal to take the full lane.