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There are lots of rules that are implicit on European roads. You have to actually read the signs. And as an American, it really requires studying before attempt

There are lots of rules that are implicit on European roads. You have to actually read the signs. And as an American, it really requires studying before attempting to drive there. As an example, in Germany, the speed limit on 2-lane highways is (from memory, it's been 5 years) 100 kph. But when you enter a town, which is designated by a specific sign that tells you the name of the town, the speed limit drops to 50 kph. There is no sign that says "speed limit is now 50 kph." It is implicit from the sign saying you are entering that town. Upon leaving the town, there will be a "speed restriction removed" sign. This doesn't mean there's no speed limit, it means the speed restriction has been removed and your speed limit is back to 100 kph. Yield or "give way" signs make tons of sense. Think of a small two lane road that crosses a four-lane highway. The cars on the larger road have the right of way and cars entering or crossing must give way/yield to that traffic. There's generally no need for a stop sign, but we as Americans are used to it and see it as the only way to do things.

deleted 5y ago
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giobox 5y ago
I find the UK's road sign for "National Speed Limit Applies" to be surely one of the worst designed road signs in history. Much like your German example, it exists solely to tell you the speed limit has changed. Rather than put a number on a sign and be done with it, its an inexplicable white circle with a black line across it! What is the "National Speed Limit" you ask? Again it depends on where you are, and even what you are driving. The only advantage I can think of is they don't need to replace these signs should the limits be changed... > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK_national_speed_limit_signs_on_a_single-carriageway.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK_national_speed_li...
- tharkun__ 5y ago
  That part also exists in Germany. The 100kph on the "Landstrasse" - which does not mean two lane highway, it could simply be the road connecting two small towns that doesn't look much different from the road in town except for no houses on either side - only applies to cars. Trucks have an automatic limit of 80kph. That is sooo dumb! Lots and lots of accidents because cars get stuck behind trucks and get aggravated. Especially on one lane ones that have enough traffic to make passing almost impossible. And since this is Germany, most of these aren't straight like you might expect from the US. These are usually very meandering, which makes it real hard to pass those trucks. And never mind the actual highways, where there's no speed limit unless posted. And trucks still can only go 80kph. So you have 2 lane Autobahn. Trucks at 80-99kph on the right lane. 90-200kph cars on the left lane. The trucks that go 80 will have a bunch of trucks that want to go 90 trying to pass them. Then add the ups and downs where even the 90kph truck that's passing will slow to 75. Even if you're only cruising at 150kph (actually a pretty nice cruising speed), if you come up on an "elephant race" as they call it behind a bend in the road it's not fun. This extends to 3 lane highways too. Just that now you actually have cars switching from the middle lane to the left lane, because one truck is passing another. So you have an 80kph truck on the right, 90kph truck on the middle lane and a 100kph car in the left lane and the 200kph Mercedes or BMW approaching from the rear.
  - cycomanic 5y ago
    Truck have a massively higher kinetic energy. Therefore they have different regulations. I really wouldn't want trucks driving around with 130km/h (let's not even speak about the environmental impact). The big issue with trucks in Germany is that Germany is a transit country and with just in time delivery freight trafic on the roads increased massively. So there are many more trucks on the road than originally planned for.
    - tharkun__ 5y ago
      The weird thing is that in Germany you have these competing speeds that make driving worse for everyone. That 20kph difference is responsible for a lot of bad behavior on smaller roads. On the Autobahn the differences are even bigger, even if there's more space (a second lane) but then like you mentioned there is a lot of traffic. In the US and Canada for example the speed limit is just the same. Everyone goes at 100kph in Canada, truck or no truck. While you have people speeding there as well obviously, everyone is sort of going at the same speed.
      - leetcrew 5y ago
        it varies a lot by region in the US. in NJ, everyone is going about the same speed, but way over the limit. people seem to be pretty good about staying out of the passing lane in light traffic. in VA, everyone does seem to more or less go the speed limit. in MD, it's utter chaos. you'll see a minivan going exactly the speed limit in the left lane, people passing it 10-20 mph over the limit, and wild people weaving in and out of exit lanes to pass everyone else at even higher speeds. that's my experience anyway.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      Another major part of the problem is that driving on highways and since 2018 also Bundesstraßen (basically, Landstraßen with regional importance) costs tolls, and truckers try to save toll wherever they can.
- traceroute66 5y ago
  > I find the UK's road sign for "National Speed Limit Applies" to be surely one of the worst designed road signs in history. No its not my friend. Because it is only telling you something that you should already know if you have passed your Theory Test. Namely that the National Speed Limit is the default state. Anyone who has passed the Theory Test will know what the NSL is based on the road they are on and the vehicle they are driving. Its not difficult, you've only got to be able to tell the pretty darn obvious difference between a built-up area, single carriageway, dual carriageway and motorway (and whether a central reservation is present or not). Which is why you only (typically) find NSL signs: - in locations where the context may normally dictate otherwise (e.g. presence of street lights) - where temporary limits are changing back to NSL (e.g. after motorway roadworks) Don't overthink it. Its a lot easier to understand and a lot more sensible than you're making it out to be.
  - giobox 5y ago
    Right, but not all drivers operating a vehicle in the UK are required to pass a UK driving theory test. Virtually all foreign drivers can arrive, show up to a rental car place on their foreign documents and just drive out. While in the best case scenario a driver may have a UK licence and passed a corresponding theory test, this is not guaranteed. There's zero requirement to have sat that test for almost all foreign cars entering the UK via train and ferry too. As a counter example, a UK person visiting the US would have almost zero difficulty understanding any of the speed signage, as they all incorporate the actual speed limits. Similarly, there is zero expectation you have passed the theory element of a US drivers licence. The US has roads with different speed limits for different vehicles too and still manages to get clear signage with numbers. Good signage can be clear regardless of any tests, virtually all other speed signage in the UK incorporates a number. Speaking from experience, even those who have sat a theory test can often not really understand that sign or forget its meaning. There's not even any guarantee a licenced UK citizen has ever sat a theory test, given those who gained a UK licence before the introduction of the theory test in 1996 have generally never been required to sit one. The pre 1996 "theory" element was some random questions from your tester during the practical.
    - 5y ago
- Someone 5y ago
  > Rather than put a number on a sign and be done with it, its an inexplicable white circle with a black line across it! > […] > it depends on […] what you are driving. If it depends on what you’re driving they can’t put a single number on it. I would guess putting multiple numbers on wouldn’t be an improvement.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    The USA sometimes has this on freeways where you’ll see a large 70 and below it TRUCKS 55. Most other classes aren’t listed. Likely the German way is better as the real law everywhere is “do not drive faster than is safe for conditions” but that is a number that changes day to day.
- _dain_ 5y ago
  It just means speed limits are passed by reference rather than by value.
- timthorn 5y ago
  The sign has that design because it used to mean the end of the speed limit - you'll also hear it referred to as "deristricted" although that hasn't been accurate for many years. Rather than spend a vast amount of money replacing the signs and potentially also missing some and resulting in driver confusion, the National Speed Limit was introduced.
yencabulator 5y ago
> You have to actually read the signs. Well, actually, the opposite -- you have to understand the meaning of the symbol that is the sign. In the US, you'll see a sign that's 9 lines of text that you're supposed to read & comprehend at 35 mph = 56 km/h.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  > you have to understand the meaning of the symbol that is the sign. Isn't that what reading is?
  - Arrath 5y ago
    Ehhh. There's reading text, and understanding symbols. For example, the first time you see a sign in the UK denoting whether you or the oncoming lane has right of way through a narrow spot the meaning may not be totally obvious.
  - yencabulator 5y ago
    "Actually reading" (as per comment I replied to) of traffic signs while in motion is rarely required in significant amounts in Europe.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > In the US, you'll see a sign that's 9 lines of text that you're supposed to read & comprehend at 35 mph = 56 km/h. Signs like what? The only signs I can think of that have a bunch of text are stuff like valid parking hours.
  - dataflow 5y ago
    >> In the US, you'll see a sign that's 9 lines of text that you're supposed to read & comprehend at 35 mph = 56 km/h. > Signs like what? The only signs I can think of that have a bunch of text are stuff like valid parking hours. Like this one, except you have to read it at 65+ mph: https://3gz8cg829c.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/image-renderer/16x9/full/1015/center/80/734b67e4-a555-42b7-96ef-120e618d6ffc-large16x9_HOVSignonUS95.jpg https://3gz8cg829c.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/... It's 3 signs totaling 10 lines: LEFT LANE HOV 2+ ONLY 6AM - 10AM 2PM - 7PM MON-FRI NO TRUCKS VIOLATION $250 FINE
morsch 5y ago
Upon leaving the town, there will be a "speed restriction removed" sign. There'll be a sign that you're leaving the town (same as entering the town, just crossed out). The speed restriction removed part is implicit.
bombela 5y ago
My comparison is driving in the US is mostly stateless and context free. While in Europe, you must know from context what type of road you are on, and also remember the current state you should be from the signs you saw earlier. I find driving in the US easier because of that. I just which there was roundabout instead of stop signs everywhere.
- zerkten 5y ago
  >> My comparison is driving in the US is mostly stateless and context free. Understanding speeds, perhaps, but driving? There are many things that require context and state like the rightmost lane becoming an exit lane requiring action to continue straight ahead. You have left turns from right lanes in some states. There are different U-turn laws in adjacent states. Stop signs permitting right turns without stops in some states through tiny exception text.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    GP's comment makes more sense if you consider driving safely/legally and actually navigating to be separate problems. in general, this is a good way to look at it; misunderstanding right-of-way is much more serious than taking a wrong (but legal) turn. there are some cases where there is an implied state/town speed limit, but other than that, all the information you need to drive safely/legally is on signage in front of you or a hundred feet back.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

giobox 5y ago

I find the UK's road sign for "National Speed Limit Applies" to be surely one of the worst designed road signs in history. Much like your German example, it exists solely to tell you the speed limit has changed. Rather than put a number on a sign and be done with it, its an inexplicable white circle with a black line across it! What is the "National Speed Limit" you ask? Again it depends on where you are, and even what you are driving. The only advantage I can think of is they don't need to replace these signs should the limits be changed... > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK_national_speed_limit_signs_on_a_single-carriageway.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK_national_speed_li...

tharkun__ 5y ago
That part also exists in Germany. The 100kph on the "Landstrasse" - which does not mean two lane highway, it could simply be the road connecting two small towns that doesn't look much different from the road in town except for no houses on either side - only applies to cars. Trucks have an automatic limit of 80kph. That is sooo dumb! Lots and lots of accidents because cars get stuck behind trucks and get aggravated. Especially on one lane ones that have enough traffic to make passing almost impossible. And since this is Germany, most of these aren't straight like you might expect from the US. These are usually very meandering, which makes it real hard to pass those trucks. And never mind the actual highways, where there's no speed limit unless posted. And trucks still can only go 80kph. So you have 2 lane Autobahn. Trucks at 80-99kph on the right lane. 90-200kph cars on the left lane. The trucks that go 80 will have a bunch of trucks that want to go 90 trying to pass them. Then add the ups and downs where even the 90kph truck that's passing will slow to 75. Even if you're only cruising at 150kph (actually a pretty nice cruising speed), if you come up on an "elephant race" as they call it behind a bend in the road it's not fun. This extends to 3 lane highways too. Just that now you actually have cars switching from the middle lane to the left lane, because one truck is passing another. So you have an 80kph truck on the right, 90kph truck on the middle lane and a 100kph car in the left lane and the 200kph Mercedes or BMW approaching from the rear.
- cycomanic 5y ago
  Truck have a massively higher kinetic energy. Therefore they have different regulations. I really wouldn't want trucks driving around with 130km/h (let's not even speak about the environmental impact). The big issue with trucks in Germany is that Germany is a transit country and with just in time delivery freight trafic on the roads increased massively. So there are many more trucks on the road than originally planned for.
  - tharkun__ 5y ago
    The weird thing is that in Germany you have these competing speeds that make driving worse for everyone. That 20kph difference is responsible for a lot of bad behavior on smaller roads. On the Autobahn the differences are even bigger, even if there's more space (a second lane) but then like you mentioned there is a lot of traffic. In the US and Canada for example the speed limit is just the same. Everyone goes at 100kph in Canada, truck or no truck. While you have people speeding there as well obviously, everyone is sort of going at the same speed.
    - leetcrew 5y ago
      it varies a lot by region in the US. in NJ, everyone is going about the same speed, but way over the limit. people seem to be pretty good about staying out of the passing lane in light traffic. in VA, everyone does seem to more or less go the speed limit. in MD, it's utter chaos. you'll see a minivan going exactly the speed limit in the left lane, people passing it 10-20 mph over the limit, and wild people weaving in and out of exit lanes to pass everyone else at even higher speeds. that's my experience anyway.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Another major part of the problem is that driving on highways and since 2018 also Bundesstraßen (basically, Landstraßen with regional importance) costs tolls, and truckers try to save toll wherever they can.
traceroute66 5y ago
> I find the UK's road sign for "National Speed Limit Applies" to be surely one of the worst designed road signs in history. No its not my friend. Because it is only telling you something that you should already know if you have passed your Theory Test. Namely that the National Speed Limit is the default state. Anyone who has passed the Theory Test will know what the NSL is based on the road they are on and the vehicle they are driving. Its not difficult, you've only got to be able to tell the pretty darn obvious difference between a built-up area, single carriageway, dual carriageway and motorway (and whether a central reservation is present or not). Which is why you only (typically) find NSL signs: - in locations where the context may normally dictate otherwise (e.g. presence of street lights) - where temporary limits are changing back to NSL (e.g. after motorway roadworks) Don't overthink it. Its a lot easier to understand and a lot more sensible than you're making it out to be.
- giobox 5y ago
  Right, but not all drivers operating a vehicle in the UK are required to pass a UK driving theory test. Virtually all foreign drivers can arrive, show up to a rental car place on their foreign documents and just drive out. While in the best case scenario a driver may have a UK licence and passed a corresponding theory test, this is not guaranteed. There's zero requirement to have sat that test for almost all foreign cars entering the UK via train and ferry too. As a counter example, a UK person visiting the US would have almost zero difficulty understanding any of the speed signage, as they all incorporate the actual speed limits. Similarly, there is zero expectation you have passed the theory element of a US drivers licence. The US has roads with different speed limits for different vehicles too and still manages to get clear signage with numbers. Good signage can be clear regardless of any tests, virtually all other speed signage in the UK incorporates a number. Speaking from experience, even those who have sat a theory test can often not really understand that sign or forget its meaning. There's not even any guarantee a licenced UK citizen has ever sat a theory test, given those who gained a UK licence before the introduction of the theory test in 1996 have generally never been required to sit one. The pre 1996 "theory" element was some random questions from your tester during the practical.
  - 5y ago
Someone 5y ago
> Rather than put a number on a sign and be done with it, its an inexplicable white circle with a black line across it! > […] > it depends on […] what you are driving. If it depends on what you’re driving they can’t put a single number on it. I would guess putting multiple numbers on wouldn’t be an improvement.
- bombcar 5y ago
  The USA sometimes has this on freeways where you’ll see a large 70 and below it TRUCKS 55. Most other classes aren’t listed. Likely the German way is better as the real law everywhere is “do not drive faster than is safe for conditions” but that is a number that changes day to day.
_dain_ 5y ago
It just means speed limits are passed by reference rather than by value.
timthorn 5y ago
The sign has that design because it used to mean the end of the speed limit - you'll also hear it referred to as "deristricted" although that hasn't been accurate for many years. Rather than spend a vast amount of money replacing the signs and potentially also missing some and resulting in driver confusion, the National Speed Limit was introduced.

yencabulator 5y ago

> You have to actually read the signs. Well, actually, the opposite -- you have to understand the meaning of the symbol that is the sign. In the US, you'll see a sign that's 9 lines of text that you're supposed to read & comprehend at 35 mph = 56 km/h.

ModernMech 5y ago
> you have to understand the meaning of the symbol that is the sign. Isn't that what reading is?
- Arrath 5y ago
  Ehhh. There's reading text, and understanding symbols. For example, the first time you see a sign in the UK denoting whether you or the oncoming lane has right of way through a narrow spot the meaning may not be totally obvious.
- yencabulator 5y ago
  "Actually reading" (as per comment I replied to) of traffic signs while in motion is rarely required in significant amounts in Europe.
Dylan16807 5y ago
> In the US, you'll see a sign that's 9 lines of text that you're supposed to read & comprehend at 35 mph = 56 km/h. Signs like what? The only signs I can think of that have a bunch of text are stuff like valid parking hours.
- dataflow 5y ago
  >> In the US, you'll see a sign that's 9 lines of text that you're supposed to read & comprehend at 35 mph = 56 km/h. > Signs like what? The only signs I can think of that have a bunch of text are stuff like valid parking hours. Like this one, except you have to read it at 65+ mph: https://3gz8cg829c.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/image-renderer/16x9/full/1015/center/80/734b67e4-a555-42b7-96ef-120e618d6ffc-large16x9_HOVSignonUS95.jpg https://3gz8cg829c.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/... It's 3 signs totaling 10 lines: LEFT LANE HOV 2+ ONLY 6AM - 10AM 2PM - 7PM MON-FRI NO TRUCKS VIOLATION $250 FINE

morsch 5y ago

Upon leaving the town, there will be a "speed restriction removed" sign. There'll be a sign that you're leaving the town (same as entering the town, just crossed out). The speed restriction removed part is implicit.

bombela 5y ago

My comparison is driving in the US is mostly stateless and context free. While in Europe, you must know from context what type of road you are on, and also remember the current state you should be from the signs you saw earlier. I find driving in the US easier because of that. I just which there was roundabout instead of stop signs everywhere.

zerkten 5y ago
>> My comparison is driving in the US is mostly stateless and context free. Understanding speeds, perhaps, but driving? There are many things that require context and state like the rightmost lane becoming an exit lane requiring action to continue straight ahead. You have left turns from right lanes in some states. There are different U-turn laws in adjacent states. Stop signs permitting right turns without stops in some states through tiny exception text.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  GP's comment makes more sense if you consider driving safely/legally and actually navigating to be separate problems. in general, this is a good way to look at it; misunderstanding right-of-way is much more serious than taking a wrong (but legal) turn. there are some cases where there is an implied state/town speed limit, but other than that, all the information you need to drive safely/legally is on signage in front of you or a hundred feet back.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]