8 ms·

I for one enjoy that my Smart TV is subsidized by all the morons who think that my data is worth anything. It's not connected to internet. It's connected to Ap

I for one enjoy that my Smart TV is subsidized by all the morons who think that my data is worth anything. It's not connected to internet. It's connected to Apple TV box. Thanks for the discount.

dancemethis 5y ago
And then Apple getting a "monopoly" on your personal data and metadata is better, somehow...? Nevermind that this data is then shared between them. And anyone and anything else getting in through the doors in the back.
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  Feel free to replace “Apple TV” with whatver is your preferred input source, be it a Raspberry Pi or whatever. It doesn’t change the fact that the people doing the subsidizing aren’t getting the intended value from me.
- PeterWhittaker 5y ago
  Apple does far less with your data than others, to the extent that there are things they cannot do that others can, e.g., in the line of recommendations: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/apples-privacy-rules-leave-its-engineers-in-the-dark https://www.theinformation.com/articles/apples-privacy-rules... Apple also does a pretty good job of securing devices against “back access”.
hypertele-Xii 5y ago
Until your neighbor enables an open, unprotected wifi, your smart TV connects to it and auto-updates to start showing you ads.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  A device automatically connecting to unprotected wifi is a major security issue waiting to happen.
  - Sakos 5y ago
    When has that issue stopped any of these companies?
    - philistine 5y ago
      It has; we have no proof of any TV doing that. Unless we see proof, it doesn’t happen.
      - Sakos 5y ago
        Not sure if you're serious or if this is sarcasm.
        philistine 5y ago
        I'm serious. No TV has been proven to automatically connect to open Wi-Fi. Not one.
- kesslern 5y ago
  Are there any TV models that are proven/documented to do this? I hear this claim all the time but I can't find a single demo of it happening. A previous HN thread [0] couldn't come up with any examples either. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350
  - tenebrisalietum 5y ago
    Samsung TVs do show an interface called 'p2p0' along 'eth0' - I think this is visible in the Netflix diagnostic screen. Dunno really what it means or does.
  - netsharc 5y ago
    Every HN discussion about smart TVs have the same points repeated again and again... "Just wait until built-in 5G modems!".
  - landmass 5y ago
    Amazon Sidewalk shares signals in a blatant misuse of my WiFi password.
  - phendrenad2 5y ago
    There is ONE comment by ONE random dude on the Samsung forums. That's it. The standards for evidence that tech people will accept continue to amaze me. (https://kiwiziti.com/~matt/timberlake/ https://kiwiziti.com/~matt/timberlake/)
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> It's not connected to internet From the article: “As a dumb TV fan who has bought several sets in the last decade, I’m usually told something akin to: “well, just don’t connect the TV to the Internet!” But that route locks you out of firmware updates, and some TV makers remove functionality if you refuse to participate in their online ecosystem. Many smart TV GUIs also need to load before you’re even allowed to switch laggy HDMI inputs.”
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mvanbaak 5y ago
  > some TV makers remove functionality if you refuse to participate in their online ecosystem The whole idea is to have no functionality on the tv. Just display the images ;-)
- philistine 5y ago
  I don’t get that point. A dumb TV would not need firmware updates. And if you’re already shopping like a madman, you should be able to figure out which TV locks out functionality. And the loading UI for the TV; I guess that’s the only fair point. But it’s clear there’s a hidden point in the argument; I don’t want functionality I won’t use. I don’t want the risk of connecting my TV. The temptation to see what it looks like.
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    There may be a firmware that, say, gets you a better decoding algo, or fixes bugs. It's not always the ads or apps.
  - basch 5y ago
    >A dumb TV would not need firmware updates. Post processing, and other parts of rendering are still occurring. For example, if you game, have an Xbox, and a Sony TV, VRR is a feature that gets added to the TV after you buy it.
mschuster91 5y ago
> It's not connected to internet. Just wait until one of your neighbors gets a DSL or cable contract with a deal like "share your electricity with us to run a public hotspot and get free access to our nationwide hotspot network in turn". There have been complaints about smart TVs automatically connecting to open WiFi networks [1], it's not that far fetched to assume some manufacturer will sooner or later cut a deal with Comcast or other providers. Or that your smart TV gets its own embedded DOCSIS modem - one would not even be able to spot that except by dissecting the firmware! - or LTE modems. All it takes is the smell of enough profits. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25276291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25276291
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  I'm skeptical about that report. Maybe the user's roommate set up wifi? Or maybe the TV was refurbished and happened to be configured to connect to a common network name like "AT&T WIFI". It's foolish to just accept one random report on the internet as truth.
agotterer 5y ago
I recently purchased a Samsung TV that I hooked up to the internet. When I turned on the TV I was prompted to agree to their TOS. When I tried to agree to the terms it just kept erroring. I went away for a bit assuming it was Samsung network issue. It took me another hour once I returned to realize that my network was blocking their tracking domains. I had to connect the TV to my phone to accept the terms and bypass my blockers. The point is, you couldn’t even use this smart tv without first connecting to the web and accepting their terms. I also haven’t really loved the Samsung TV. The UI is not great and it often forces me into their undeletable live streaming TV app. I also recently purchased an LG tv, and I love it. The UI is great, there’s no ads, or intrusive apps. I’ll likely only buy LG tvs moving forward.
- brightball 5y ago
  That’s where I am on Roku. I love the Roku setup at this point.
- dankboys 5y ago
  Yeah LGs are great, no long loading times. Only issue I've found is that it doesn't like antenna signal being too strong (I've got an attenuator to make mine work)
falcolas 5y ago
What makes you think the price was discounted just because they found another way to monetize their users?
- mst 5y ago
  Last time I saw a TV vendor's margin breakout they were selling the hardware at basically cost. So in that particular case it appears to be what happened. (this was a year plus back so I've completely forgotten which vendor, sorry)
  - falcolas 5y ago
    Worth looking at this: https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337.html https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337... Note that Visio is still making profit on the TVs itself, in addition to the ad revenue. Pretty standard operating procedure in most markets these days. Charge for the product, sell either additional features for the product (which used to come included in the price) or the metrics the product provides.

I for one enjoy that my Smart TV is subsidized by all the morons who think that my data is worth anything. It's not connected to internet. It's connected to Apple TV box. Thanks for the discount.

dancemethis 5y ago

And then Apple getting a "monopoly" on your personal data and metadata is better, somehow...? Nevermind that this data is then shared between them. And anyone and anything else getting in through the doors in the back.

sgjohnson 5y ago
Feel free to replace “Apple TV” with whatver is your preferred input source, be it a Raspberry Pi or whatever. It doesn’t change the fact that the people doing the subsidizing aren’t getting the intended value from me.
PeterWhittaker 5y ago
Apple does far less with your data than others, to the extent that there are things they cannot do that others can, e.g., in the line of recommendations: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/apples-privacy-rules-leave-its-engineers-in-the-dark https://www.theinformation.com/articles/apples-privacy-rules... Apple also does a pretty good job of securing devices against “back access”.

hypertele-Xii 5y ago

Until your neighbor enables an open, unprotected wifi, your smart TV connects to it and auto-updates to start showing you ads.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
A device automatically connecting to unprotected wifi is a major security issue waiting to happen.
- Sakos 5y ago
  When has that issue stopped any of these companies?
  - philistine 5y ago
    It has; we have no proof of any TV doing that. Unless we see proof, it doesn’t happen.
    - Sakos 5y ago
      Not sure if you're serious or if this is sarcasm.
      - philistine 5y ago
        I'm serious. No TV has been proven to automatically connect to open Wi-Fi. Not one.
kesslern 5y ago
Are there any TV models that are proven/documented to do this? I hear this claim all the time but I can't find a single demo of it happening. A previous HN thread [0] couldn't come up with any examples either. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350
- tenebrisalietum 5y ago
  Samsung TVs do show an interface called 'p2p0' along 'eth0' - I think this is visible in the Netflix diagnostic screen. Dunno really what it means or does.
- netsharc 5y ago
  Every HN discussion about smart TVs have the same points repeated again and again... "Just wait until built-in 5G modems!".
- landmass 5y ago
  Amazon Sidewalk shares signals in a blatant misuse of my WiFi password.
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  There is ONE comment by ONE random dude on the Samsung forums. That's it. The standards for evidence that tech people will accept continue to amaze me. (https://kiwiziti.com/~matt/timberlake/ https://kiwiziti.com/~matt/timberlake/)

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> It's not connected to internet From the article: “As a dumb TV fan who has bought several sets in the last decade, I’m usually told something akin to: “well, just don’t connect the TV to the Internet!” But that route locks you out of firmware updates, and some TV makers remove functionality if you refuse to participate in their online ecosystem. Many smart TV GUIs also need to load before you’re even allowed to switch laggy HDMI inputs.”

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mvanbaak 5y ago
> some TV makers remove functionality if you refuse to participate in their online ecosystem The whole idea is to have no functionality on the tv. Just display the images ;-)
philistine 5y ago
I don’t get that point. A dumb TV would not need firmware updates. And if you’re already shopping like a madman, you should be able to figure out which TV locks out functionality. And the loading UI for the TV; I guess that’s the only fair point. But it’s clear there’s a hidden point in the argument; I don’t want functionality I won’t use. I don’t want the risk of connecting my TV. The temptation to see what it looks like.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  There may be a firmware that, say, gets you a better decoding algo, or fixes bugs. It's not always the ads or apps.
- basch 5y ago
  >A dumb TV would not need firmware updates. Post processing, and other parts of rendering are still occurring. For example, if you game, have an Xbox, and a Sony TV, VRR is a feature that gets added to the TV after you buy it.

mschuster91 5y ago

> It's not connected to internet. Just wait until one of your neighbors gets a DSL or cable contract with a deal like "share your electricity with us to run a public hotspot and get free access to our nationwide hotspot network in turn". There have been complaints about smart TVs automatically connecting to open WiFi networks [1], it's not that far fetched to assume some manufacturer will sooner or later cut a deal with Comcast or other providers. Or that your smart TV gets its own embedded DOCSIS modem - one would not even be able to spot that except by dissecting the firmware! - or LTE modems. All it takes is the smell of enough profits. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25276291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25276291

phendrenad2 5y ago
I'm skeptical about that report. Maybe the user's roommate set up wifi? Or maybe the TV was refurbished and happened to be configured to connect to a common network name like "AT&T WIFI". It's foolish to just accept one random report on the internet as truth.

agotterer 5y ago

I recently purchased a Samsung TV that I hooked up to the internet. When I turned on the TV I was prompted to agree to their TOS. When I tried to agree to the terms it just kept erroring. I went away for a bit assuming it was Samsung network issue. It took me another hour once I returned to realize that my network was blocking their tracking domains. I had to connect the TV to my phone to accept the terms and bypass my blockers. The point is, you couldn’t even use this smart tv without first connecting to the web and accepting their terms. I also haven’t really loved the Samsung TV. The UI is not great and it often forces me into their undeletable live streaming TV app. I also recently purchased an LG tv, and I love it. The UI is great, there’s no ads, or intrusive apps. I’ll likely only buy LG tvs moving forward.

brightball 5y ago
That’s where I am on Roku. I love the Roku setup at this point.
dankboys 5y ago
Yeah LGs are great, no long loading times. Only issue I've found is that it doesn't like antenna signal being too strong (I've got an attenuator to make mine work)

falcolas 5y ago

What makes you think the price was discounted just because they found another way to monetize their users?

mst 5y ago
Last time I saw a TV vendor's margin breakout they were selling the hardware at basically cost. So in that particular case it appears to be what happened. (this was a year plus back so I've completely forgotten which vendor, sorry)
- falcolas 5y ago
  Worth looking at this: https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337.html https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337... Note that Visio is still making profit on the TVs itself, in addition to the ad revenue. Pretty standard operating procedure in most markets these days. Charge for the product, sell either additional features for the product (which used to come included in the price) or the metrics the product provides.