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Siri: Apple's trojan horse

121 points by fabiandesimone 15y ago

st3fan 15y ago
TL;DR This article is all about a theoretical future where Apple turns evil and starts making deals with ad networks to pollute your Siri experience. Pure FUD.
- fabiandesimone 15y ago
  Of course is theory. Not sure where you get the evil part though. I think is quite convenient.
- atlbeer 15y ago
  Or it's an installed app that uses siri's API (in the future) Consumer downloads the GAP app and whenever you enter a GAP store get a coupon (opt-in)
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  The interesting thing is that you think this behaviour is evil. From Apple's (or Google's, for that matter) POV, they're streamlining your life and removing some of the pain of shopping by suggesting stores and products that you might like, deals you can benefit from when you're shopping for something specific, and the like. In the case of Google, their ability to target ads to your interests allows them to provide free applications like Search, Maps, GMail, etc. For Apple, although giving customers price relief would be highly out of character, new revenue streams open new possibilities for future devices and services to take the annoyance out of life. By using these services, we are implicitly (or explicitly) agreeing to hand over our personal information. It might make us uncomfortable that Apple knows our wife's shoe size and favorite brands, but if we happen to be out to lunch next to a shoe store that's having a 40% off sale and our phone lets us know, is it really that bad? I'm not saying I'm entirely comfortable with the proposition, but I can see why it might end up coming about. It won't be because Apple/Google?Facebook are Evil; it will be because consumers respond to it. For enough people, it will be a worthwhile trade off to forego some privacy in exchange for a useful service.
  - ericd 15y ago
    >> but if we happen to be out to lunch next to a shoe store that's having a 40% off sale and our phone lets us know, is it really that bad? For me, yes, because it interrupts what I'm doing and breaks my focus. If I really need shoes, then show me the best deal on shoes when I've expressed intent and I'm not otherwise occupied. Otherwise, I don't want to hear about it. That's why Google's ads are great, and I hate the rest - it's a high bar, and most companies just don't care about you enough to hold back from imposing their ads at times when it doesn't make sense.
  - mortenjorck 15y ago
    Perhaps more interesting is that you see an equivalence between what Google does and what it is proposed Apple might do. As you say, with Google, the proposition is clear: You get free email and other Google services; Google monetizes them with contextual advertising. With Apple, the proposition is also clear: You pay upfront; Apple supplies you with integrated hardware and software. This is a proposition that Apple upset that balance.
tjogin 15y ago
This is just a bunch of made-up bullshit. I don't see why Apple is to blame for this author's active imagination.
Toddward 15y ago
A compelling theory, but it would be totally unlike Apple to pull something like this. Why would Apple pollute the sublime, simple experience of using Siri with advertisements? It would be uncharacteristic - it's not like a company like Apple needs to do anything like this when they generate revenue through so many other streams.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
dextorious 15y ago
That sounds totally unlike Apple. Last time I checked, Apple made its billions by selling products and software, not ads. They do have iAds, but they specifically designed those to be as unobtrusive as possible, and developers have to decide if they want to use them in their apps.
- sambeau 15y ago
  I wonder whether Apple lost interest in iAds a little when they realised the potential of Siri to replace search: suddenly they had a better way to disrupt Google.
  - jad 15y ago
    Or maybe Apple doesn't know anything about the ad business and has executed poorly. No need to over think it.
    - dextorious 15y ago
      Or maybe they don't need to: http://www.bnet.com/blog/advertising-business/inside-the-revenue-model-for-iad-why-apple-doesnt-want-to-win-the-mobile-ad-race/6876 http://www.bnet.com/blog/advertising-business/inside-the-rev...
sambeau 15y ago
If anything I see the opposite happening. Siri will pull users away from search and advertisers and back towards expert guides and personal recommendations. Siri, what was that restaurant that John liked? Siri, where should I eat with my birthday friends? Siri, recommend me a live gig? Siri, recommend me a funny movie? Suddenly we have have all the possibilities of the social graph and Netflix-style recommendations. Would Apple be bold enough to use Siri to collect & correct this information? Sam, did you enjoy the film? Yes, Siri, very much How many stars out of five would you give it? Four. Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future. It would be fascinating if this happened: Would you like to recommend it to your friends? Yes, Siri, I would. I could see a vague possibility of Songbird-style interactions, too. Siri, can you notify me when tickets for The National are announced. Siri, please let me know when the next Quiz Night is going to be. I doubt Apple will ever do this, but you never know: Siri, please inform me of upcoming special offers at HealthSpa
- grecy 15y ago
  Sam, did you enjoy the film? Yes, Siri, very much How many stars out of five would you give it? Four. Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future. I Could totally see this happenning in a Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB app. if Apple ever allow third party apps access to Siri APIs.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    Criticker might be a better option, since the recommendations backend is already in place. (Note, I'm not affiliated, just a happy user)
- beaumartinez 15y ago
  Off topic— Sam, did you enjoy the film? Yes, Siri, very much How many stars out of five would you give it? Four. Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future. Has anyone watched the 2009 film Moon? I read that whole conversation in Kevin Spacey's voice.
kb101 15y ago
In fairness to the author, I don't think this was intended as an "Apple is evil" post, though using the term "trojan horse" makes for great linkbait. I don't see that this is that far-fetched. Considering how many other mobile phones have adopted features that debuted on the iPhone, it isn't much of a stretch to imagine a startup designed to allow you opt in to location-based discounts that are cued in part by your voice memos or location check-ins. Apple might not be the one to do it, but it is definitely a tempting revenue stream... if the database knows that 250 people who have "wife's shoes" on their reminder list are currently within walking/driving distance of the local mall, why not? Google already reads your email to serve up ads. This kind of thing is why I don't have have a facebook page, a gmail account, or a smarter phone than a Blackberry. I love technology and software, always want to have the latest and greatest, but my data has to stay mine, and I can remember who to buy shoes for well enough on my own. But I also realize that makes me a minority and an oddity. Most people don't care if their phone knows everything about them, and they would probably be happy to have it remind them to buy flowers for 25% off on the way back from the bar.
- fabiandesimone 15y ago
  Thank you. It was never intended as an "Apple is evil" post. I realized after posting the article that using Trojan Horse could come of as negative.
  - rhizome 15y ago
    Ah yes, it's always "I realized after posting..."
bruceboughton 15y ago
Something I noticed this week: if you use the Apple Store app and are within a few hundred metres of an actual Apple Store, the app pops up a window with upcoming One2One sessions and genius bar openings.
- culturestate 15y ago
  You can also check-in for your appointments via the app. It's really very convenient.
mille562 15y ago
The feature of reminding you to do X when you are near Y is part of the Reminders app, not Siri. Siri only has the logic to take a verbal request and add a reminder to that app.
veb 15y ago
Imagine the horror if Apple partnered with Facebook, and allowed them access to Siri. Complete world domination.
Aykroyd 15y ago
I don't buy it. Having siri respond to a create reminder command with a bunch of computer-read text about what you could buy nearby would be so obnoxious and disruptive that it would undermine the user experience. Who would want to use that? Also, it's not clear to me why they would need to create a crap user experience for some ad revenue when they get such high margins on their devices. They don't seem to be having trouble making money.
- monochromatic 15y ago
  Agreed, it's just too ugly. Steve Jobs would never let that happen. Oh wait.
angryasian 15y ago
Apple - a future where you'll pay to be the product
tobylane 15y ago
Surely people should be writing (they already briefly were before Siri was known) about Google's attempt at this, including email and os on. Google is far more likely to grab from every source it has, including email, in the background. I'd expect Siri to only read emails you refer to (Siri, what was that restaurant from the email this morning?). FUD with Google isn't as far off as it sometimes seems (yes, agreeing with fud is stupid, but still).
ja2ke 15y ago
Post-return-of-Jobs Apple (and really Apple throughout its history, though more cleanly and clearly recently) has, for all its success and all its innovation, been very very traditional at its core: It sells hard goods to public consumers in exchange for cash. I don't think Apple has any interest in flipping that incredibly successful equation and selling its consumers to advertisers. iAd is an obvious-feeling exception to this, of course. That said, iAd has clearly never been a focus, it's always felt like an "I guess we should," and maybe a poster child for WebKit in the commercial/ad space, but not as a significant means to an end for the company. How often is iAd discussed by Apple or anyone else, especially compared to everything else they do. They also sell content in their online stores, but that is also a false lead, because it differs from Google and social network styles of digital monetization. They're still selling CONTENT to CONSUMERS there, and they're only doing it because they want Apple hardware to be the thing people buy to consume their media. When selling iCloud, they have repeatedly pointed out that its an advertising free service. "Who wants ads in their email?" was the sentiment expressed at its announcement. Apple suddenly shifting gears, turning their precisely built, paid for and profitable consumer goods into trojan horses for bundled adware seems nearly entirely unlikely. Letting users INSTALL that sort of thing wouldn't be a surprise -- "Siri, play 'Super Troopers' on Netflix" -- but that's, again, the user using a paid for service or product on the device, not the user being sold to an advertiser.
- jwco 15y ago
  Agree, but Apple has also always appealed to artists/lovers of the arts, and post-return-of-Jobs Apple translated that into the iPod and iTunes/iTunes Store, the latter of which is filled with things like reviews and ads of sorts, or at least digital movie posters and album covers. So I wouldn't be surprised if Siri/Apple found some non-annoying way to turn you on to new movies/music.
vph 15y ago
Apple's business model has apparently based on selling premium products at a premium price, not giving away some products and selling in add-ons.
- andyfleming 15y ago
  I agree. Apple protects the user experience. I can respect that and I trust them more than most companies. I'll admit, they even will push their own services and block out other offerings. However, they don't just sell out in cheap, forceful ways. I'm not worried... yet...
hagyma 15y ago
Improving devices and technologies are taking certain things out of our hands and heads. More and more by the hour actually... facebook is there to remind us on birthdays for example. now... it might sound stupid, but i don't care about those reminders and i am not that friend of yours who says happy birthday when seeing the alert. i usually log in at night, so if i forgot someones birthday, i let it slip. i am pretty sure this sounds more than crazy, but i just ignore the part of technologies where they would change my personality... i just hope the freed up space by advancing technologies will be put to better use, so instead of keeping your wife's birthday or your 34th anniversary in your mind, you'll invent a more efficient way to burn fuel, or thinking smaller, a better combination of spices for your bbq.
miles_matthias 15y ago
Not sure if apple will go for the advertising bit, but I really really like the example you gave with your wife. That would be a life saver. I also love that sign off line - BB sucks :)
mrchess 15y ago
I think you guys are using your imaginations a bit too much. From every Siri video I've seen, it just seems like a typical text-to-speech recognition and doesn't work nearly as good as advertised. Just look how many times it flops in this demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNcnj2l6RE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNcnj2l6RE. The guy even admits that "Siri doesn't always work as expected, hence the beta tag".
jgh 15y ago
The important question nobody is asking about Siri is actually "Will Siri make my iPad 3 porn experience weird?"
napierzaza 15y ago
This is the worst prediction ever.
tripzilch 15y ago
I just have to re-quote the best (IMO) comment below that article here (it's not mine): ---- Blake October 12, 2011 at 6:14 pm Next thing you know, you find yourself spending more time with Siri. She understands you. She can practically predict what you’re going to do. While Siri does nag you, she only does so in ways that you request. What started out as a few commands here and there turn into long conversations over candlelight. Soon, you find yourself avoiding your wife to be able to spend more time with Siri. After all, Siri doesn’t ask for much and is always eager to listen to whatever you have to say. Unfortunately you didn’t have the foresight to see that Siri is a harsh mistress. Soon, the iPhone 5 will be released and with it will come a better version. Siri 2.0 will start wooing you with her helpful ways and ask you to leave the old Siri behind. But by then it will have been too late. Siri knows the intimate details of your every life. She’s been listening into all your conversations, reading all your emails. And she never forgets.
yonasb 15y ago
Imaginative, yes. Possible, yes. Likely, who knows. But Siri could be the first step towards real AI, and this guy painted the picture pretty clearly. Bravo

121 points by fabiandesimone 15y ago

TL;DR This article is all about a theoretical future where Apple turns evil and starts making deals with ad networks to pollute your Siri experience. Pure FUD.

fabiandesimone 15y ago
Of course is theory. Not sure where you get the evil part though. I think is quite convenient.
atlbeer 15y ago
Or it's an installed app that uses siri's API (in the future) Consumer downloads the GAP app and whenever you enter a GAP store get a coupon (opt-in)
redthrowaway 15y ago
The interesting thing is that you think this behaviour is evil. From Apple's (or Google's, for that matter) POV, they're streamlining your life and removing some of the pain of shopping by suggesting stores and products that you might like, deals you can benefit from when you're shopping for something specific, and the like. In the case of Google, their ability to target ads to your interests allows them to provide free applications like Search, Maps, GMail, etc. For Apple, although giving customers price relief would be highly out of character, new revenue streams open new possibilities for future devices and services to take the annoyance out of life. By using these services, we are implicitly (or explicitly) agreeing to hand over our personal information. It might make us uncomfortable that Apple knows our wife's shoe size and favorite brands, but if we happen to be out to lunch next to a shoe store that's having a 40% off sale and our phone lets us know, is it really that bad? I'm not saying I'm entirely comfortable with the proposition, but I can see why it might end up coming about. It won't be because Apple/Google?Facebook are Evil; it will be because consumers respond to it. For enough people, it will be a worthwhile trade off to forego some privacy in exchange for a useful service.
- ericd 15y ago
  >> but if we happen to be out to lunch next to a shoe store that's having a 40% off sale and our phone lets us know, is it really that bad? For me, yes, because it interrupts what I'm doing and breaks my focus. If I really need shoes, then show me the best deal on shoes when I've expressed intent and I'm not otherwise occupied. Otherwise, I don't want to hear about it. That's why Google's ads are great, and I hate the rest - it's a high bar, and most companies just don't care about you enough to hold back from imposing their ads at times when it doesn't make sense.
- mortenjorck 15y ago
  Perhaps more interesting is that you see an equivalence between what Google does and what it is proposed Apple might do. As you say, with Google, the proposition is clear: You get free email and other Google services; Google monetizes them with contextual advertising. With Apple, the proposition is also clear: You pay upfront; Apple supplies you with integrated hardware and software. This is a proposition that Apple upset that balance.

tjogin 15y ago

This is just a bunch of made-up bullshit. I don't see why Apple is to blame for this author's active imagination.

Toddward 15y ago

A compelling theory, but it would be totally unlike Apple to pull something like this. Why would Apple pollute the sublime, simple experience of using Siri with advertisements? It would be uncharacteristic - it's not like a company like Apple needs to do anything like this when they generate revenue through so many other streams.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

dextorious 15y ago

That sounds totally unlike Apple. Last time I checked, Apple made its billions by selling products and software, not ads. They do have iAds, but they specifically designed those to be as unobtrusive as possible, and developers have to decide if they want to use them in their apps.

sambeau 15y ago
I wonder whether Apple lost interest in iAds a little when they realised the potential of Siri to replace search: suddenly they had a better way to disrupt Google.
- jad 15y ago
  Or maybe Apple doesn't know anything about the ad business and has executed poorly. No need to over think it.
  - dextorious 15y ago
    Or maybe they don't need to: http://www.bnet.com/blog/advertising-business/inside-the-revenue-model-for-iad-why-apple-doesnt-want-to-win-the-mobile-ad-race/6876 http://www.bnet.com/blog/advertising-business/inside-the-rev...

sambeau 15y ago

If anything I see the opposite happening. Siri will pull users away from search and advertisers and back towards expert guides and personal recommendations. Siri, what was that restaurant that John liked? Siri, where should I eat with my birthday friends? Siri, recommend me a live gig? Siri, recommend me a funny movie? Suddenly we have have all the possibilities of the social graph and Netflix-style recommendations. Would Apple be bold enough to use Siri to collect & correct this information? Sam, did you enjoy the film? Yes, Siri, very much How many stars out of five would you give it? Four. Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future. It would be fascinating if this happened: Would you like to recommend it to your friends? Yes, Siri, I would. I could see a vague possibility of Songbird-style interactions, too. Siri, can you notify me when tickets for The National are announced. Siri, please let me know when the next Quiz Night is going to be. I doubt Apple will ever do this, but you never know: Siri, please inform me of upcoming special offers at HealthSpa

grecy 15y ago
Sam, did you enjoy the film? Yes, Siri, very much How many stars out of five would you give it? Four. Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future. I Could totally see this happenning in a Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB app. if Apple ever allow third party apps access to Siri APIs.
- icebraining 15y ago
  Criticker might be a better option, since the recommendations backend is already in place. (Note, I'm not affiliated, just a happy user)
beaumartinez 15y ago
Off topic— Sam, did you enjoy the film? Yes, Siri, very much How many stars out of five would you give it? Four. Thank you, Sam. I will try to recommend similar films in the future. Has anyone watched the 2009 film Moon? I read that whole conversation in Kevin Spacey's voice.

kb101 15y ago

In fairness to the author, I don't think this was intended as an "Apple is evil" post, though using the term "trojan horse" makes for great linkbait. I don't see that this is that far-fetched. Considering how many other mobile phones have adopted features that debuted on the iPhone, it isn't much of a stretch to imagine a startup designed to allow you opt in to location-based discounts that are cued in part by your voice memos or location check-ins. Apple might not be the one to do it, but it is definitely a tempting revenue stream... if the database knows that 250 people who have "wife's shoes" on their reminder list are currently within walking/driving distance of the local mall, why not? Google already reads your email to serve up ads. This kind of thing is why I don't have have a facebook page, a gmail account, or a smarter phone than a Blackberry. I love technology and software, always want to have the latest and greatest, but my data has to stay mine, and I can remember who to buy shoes for well enough on my own. But I also realize that makes me a minority and an oddity. Most people don't care if their phone knows everything about them, and they would probably be happy to have it remind them to buy flowers for 25% off on the way back from the bar.

fabiandesimone 15y ago
Thank you. It was never intended as an "Apple is evil" post. I realized after posting the article that using Trojan Horse could come of as negative.
- rhizome 15y ago
  Ah yes, it's always "I realized after posting..."

bruceboughton 15y ago

Something I noticed this week: if you use the Apple Store app and are within a few hundred metres of an actual Apple Store, the app pops up a window with upcoming One2One sessions and genius bar openings.

culturestate 15y ago
You can also check-in for your appointments via the app. It's really very convenient.

mille562 15y ago

The feature of reminding you to do X when you are near Y is part of the Reminders app, not Siri. Siri only has the logic to take a verbal request and add a reminder to that app.

veb 15y ago

Imagine the horror if Apple partnered with Facebook, and allowed them access to Siri. Complete world domination.

Aykroyd 15y ago

I don't buy it. Having siri respond to a create reminder command with a bunch of computer-read text about what you could buy nearby would be so obnoxious and disruptive that it would undermine the user experience. Who would want to use that? Also, it's not clear to me why they would need to create a crap user experience for some ad revenue when they get such high margins on their devices. They don't seem to be having trouble making money.

monochromatic 15y ago
Agreed, it's just too ugly. Steve Jobs would never let that happen. Oh wait.

angryasian 15y ago

Apple - a future where you'll pay to be the product

tobylane 15y ago

Surely people should be writing (they already briefly were before Siri was known) about Google's attempt at this, including email and os on. Google is far more likely to grab from every source it has, including email, in the background. I'd expect Siri to only read emails you refer to (Siri, what was that restaurant from the email this morning?). FUD with Google isn't as far off as it sometimes seems (yes, agreeing with fud is stupid, but still).

ja2ke 15y ago

Post-return-of-Jobs Apple (and really Apple throughout its history, though more cleanly and clearly recently) has, for all its success and all its innovation, been very very traditional at its core: It sells hard goods to public consumers in exchange for cash. I don't think Apple has any interest in flipping that incredibly successful equation and selling its consumers to advertisers. iAd is an obvious-feeling exception to this, of course. That said, iAd has clearly never been a focus, it's always felt like an "I guess we should," and maybe a poster child for WebKit in the commercial/ad space, but not as a significant means to an end for the company. How often is iAd discussed by Apple or anyone else, especially compared to everything else they do. They also sell content in their online stores, but that is also a false lead, because it differs from Google and social network styles of digital monetization. They're still selling CONTENT to CONSUMERS there, and they're only doing it because they want Apple hardware to be the thing people buy to consume their media. When selling iCloud, they have repeatedly pointed out that its an advertising free service. "Who wants ads in their email?" was the sentiment expressed at its announcement. Apple suddenly shifting gears, turning their precisely built, paid for and profitable consumer goods into trojan horses for bundled adware seems nearly entirely unlikely. Letting users INSTALL that sort of thing wouldn't be a surprise -- "Siri, play 'Super Troopers' on Netflix" -- but that's, again, the user using a paid for service or product on the device, not the user being sold to an advertiser.

jwco 15y ago
Agree, but Apple has also always appealed to artists/lovers of the arts, and post-return-of-Jobs Apple translated that into the iPod and iTunes/iTunes Store, the latter of which is filled with things like reviews and ads of sorts, or at least digital movie posters and album covers. So I wouldn't be surprised if Siri/Apple found some non-annoying way to turn you on to new movies/music.

vph 15y ago

Apple's business model has apparently based on selling premium products at a premium price, not giving away some products and selling in add-ons.

andyfleming 15y ago
I agree. Apple protects the user experience. I can respect that and I trust them more than most companies. I'll admit, they even will push their own services and block out other offerings. However, they don't just sell out in cheap, forceful ways. I'm not worried... yet...

hagyma 15y ago

Improving devices and technologies are taking certain things out of our hands and heads. More and more by the hour actually... facebook is there to remind us on birthdays for example. now... it might sound stupid, but i don't care about those reminders and i am not that friend of yours who says happy birthday when seeing the alert. i usually log in at night, so if i forgot someones birthday, i let it slip. i am pretty sure this sounds more than crazy, but i just ignore the part of technologies where they would change my personality... i just hope the freed up space by advancing technologies will be put to better use, so instead of keeping your wife's birthday or your 34th anniversary in your mind, you'll invent a more efficient way to burn fuel, or thinking smaller, a better combination of spices for your bbq.

miles_matthias 15y ago

Not sure if apple will go for the advertising bit, but I really really like the example you gave with your wife. That would be a life saver. I also love that sign off line - BB sucks :)

mrchess 15y ago

I think you guys are using your imaginations a bit too much. From every Siri video I've seen, it just seems like a typical text-to-speech recognition and doesn't work nearly as good as advertised. Just look how many times it flops in this demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNcnj2l6RE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNcnj2l6RE. The guy even admits that "Siri doesn't always work as expected, hence the beta tag".

jgh 15y ago

The important question nobody is asking about Siri is actually "Will Siri make my iPad 3 porn experience weird?"

napierzaza 15y ago

This is the worst prediction ever.

tripzilch 15y ago

I just have to re-quote the best (IMO) comment below that article here (it's not mine): ---- Blake October 12, 2011 at 6:14 pm Next thing you know, you find yourself spending more time with Siri. She understands you. She can practically predict what you’re going to do. While Siri does nag you, she only does so in ways that you request. What started out as a few commands here and there turn into long conversations over candlelight. Soon, you find yourself avoiding your wife to be able to spend more time with Siri. After all, Siri doesn’t ask for much and is always eager to listen to whatever you have to say. Unfortunately you didn’t have the foresight to see that Siri is a harsh mistress. Soon, the iPhone 5 will be released and with it will come a better version. Siri 2.0 will start wooing you with her helpful ways and ask you to leave the old Siri behind. But by then it will have been too late. Siri knows the intimate details of your every life. She’s been listening into all your conversations, reading all your emails. And she never forgets.

yonasb 15y ago

Imaginative, yes. Possible, yes. Likely, who knows. But Siri could be the first step towards real AI, and this guy painted the picture pretty clearly. Bravo