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>Over the years, she says, doctors have repeatedly told EG that her brain doesn’t make sense. One doctor told her she should have seizures, or that she shouldn’
by javajosh 5y ago
>Over the years, she says, doctors have repeatedly told EG that her brain doesn’t make sense. One doctor told her she should have seizures, or that she shouldn’t have a good vocabulary—and “he was annoyed that I did,” she says. (As part of the study at MIT, EG tested in the 98th percentile for vocabulary.) The experiences were frustrating; they “pissed me off,” as EG puts it. “They made so many pronouncements and conclusions without any investigation whatsoever,” she says.
This pisses me off, too. The hubris of doctors and scientists is so profound, that they will complain to a person who challenges their preconceptions. Disgusting.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoI think it's less them complaining more them sort of perplexed. I've been "annoyed" at things that go completely different then I expected when I have no explanation for why. Definitely poor patient interaction from the doctors, but I don't think it's their hubris. Just that they're people like anyone else.
- hyperpallium2 5y agoA scientist, encountering evidence contradicting theory, thinks that's interesting... MDs don't practice science; they apply science.
- postingposts 5y agoWhat do you call the person who graduated last in medical school? Doctor.
- idontwantthis 5y agoBut they won’t practice unless they pass the board exam.
- juancb 5y agoOK fine, let's build on the joke. What do you call the person who graduated last in their medical school AND passes the USMLE (United States Licensing Exam) steps with the lowest passing score? Doctor.
- idontwantthis 5y agoSee? Now it’s funny!
- postingposts 5y agoWhat do you call someone who thinks they’re smart enough to understand the human body but have trouble understanding a joke? Doctor.
- javajosh 5y agoI almost edited my comment along those lines. Except I was going to say the people who reject interesting exceptions don't practice science, they practice scientism. And I think that's bad in anyone, especially an MD (who AFAIK are trained as scientists who don't know everything, which is why they call it "practicing" medicine).
- andi999 5y agoYes, and it is a feature. A) it protects them legally and mentally (you just follow the current standard) B) you do not want your doctor to have a scientific mindset, which would mean experimenting with your condition with the aim to learn more about nature At most you want the detective mindset (aka House MD), if you have something uncommon, but you do not want it all the time.
- hinkley 5y agoSo many doctors have an origin story that's rooted in Illusion of Control. I became an oncologist because my mother died of cancer. I became an neurosurgeon because my cousin died of a brain tumor. They built a whole personality around a scared kid who vowed that one day they would know what is in the darkness and defeat it. But the darkness is vast and our time is very short. We are just beginning to talk about how many doctors are walking around with PTSD they got on the job. Nobody is talking about the ones who already had it before they even got accepted into college.
- loa_in_ 5y agoThat's cynical. They might wish to help others avoid their misery which is an admirable goal. Just like many people who have been starving are very keen to share food.
- hinkley 5y agoYou have a better explanation for the constant stream of complains about doctors shooting the messenger? If so a bunch of people are dying to hear it.
- kwhitefoot 5y agoIt might well be cynical; but it is nonetheless true that many doctors suffer from the stress of the job. A very smart schoolfriend of mine studied medicine and became a general practitioner. He stuck to it for about ten years before giving up because the weight of responsibility was too much for him; he moved into bespoke software for medical practices instead.
- eyelidlessness 5y agoThey’re doctors and have been through several years of academic rigor which should prepare them for reassessing their assumptions when those turn out to be wrong. I’m hardly qualified to assess this patient’s brain, but I’m family with several people who are quite qualified for this kind of reassessment of facts and I… frankly stop talking to them about things when it’s clear they’re overconfident in their assumptions. Yeah they’re human. But having a doctor tell you the reality you experience is absurd and impossible is quite a lot worse than having a lay person do the same.
- manquer 5y agoDoctors are generally poor at questioning their assumptions. You constantly hear of cases where many doctors missed the actual problem for a long time. Most cases come under standard frameworks and diagnosis will be correct, however if you are the exception then tough luck in getting a right diagnosis on time
- cjbgkagh 5y agoDoctors are taught not to look for rare things, despite rare things happening all the time. And many of those rare things wouldn’t be considered rare in the first place if they bothered looking for them.
- markdown 5y agoI get annoyed when code I write spits out unexpected responses to input. Very annoyed. I can sometimes be heard shouting at my computer. It "pisses me off". I'll sometimes make pronouncements and conclusions before I investigate further. Disgusting hubris.
- caycep 5y agoI kind of wonder - these are probably not very experienced neurologists....which if she went to research-heavy academic centers like MGH, it is not uncommon. They spend most of their time writing grants or studying rats in the lab. They know a lot about rats...but I recall a steady stream of misdiagnoses coming from that place, probably because their faculty only do something like 1 clinic day a month.
- buzzard1 5y ago
- mrtksn 5y agoHubris? What hubris? They are annoyed that their theories don't hold on her case. They operate by these theories and if the theories don't hold they can't help. She is not a car, they can't simply take her apart and investigate what is causing this unexpected behavior. It's very unlikely that a doctor will investigate a patients condition and will tear apart all the theories, build new ones based on the findings and cure her(if needed). What is more realistic is that some scientist working on theories about how something it the brain works will see her case and adjust the theories accordingly and write a paper about it. Some day, when enough work is done to make the theories precise enough someone will figure out why that's happening.
- staindk 5y agoSure, what you said is true, but it baffles me that they would complain directly to the patient. Save the frustration for later IMO.
- illiac786 5y agoI have found that I can get the doctor where I want by stating the opposite. It works surprisingly well. For example, my sciatic nerve kills me again, I have had that for 10 years now. Doctor moved, so new doctor. Normally, even if it's the same practice, it takes a while for the new doctor to come to the same conclusion. Which is good, he's doing his homework. But, if I make carefully chosen assertions, which the doctor will always contradict, I get him where I want him much quicker. In a sense, it works for me, but it's a testament to the relationship doctors have with their patients: patients are so stupid, the reflex is to contradict then each time. Not sure it qualifies as hubris, but it's close.
- empraptor 5y agosounds like an episode of House.
- bigDinosaur 5y agoThis may work for many things but beware: if you mention 'stress' or 'anxiety' your doctor will almost certainly not contradict you!
- random_kris 5y agoWhat are you doing to manage te sciatic pain? I have it also but I have no ideas how to treat it
- MarcelOlsz 5y agoLook very closely and suspiciously into your doctors eyes and slowly say "I don't have sciatica." I have no idea what jedi mind tricks this guy is using.
- goatlover 5y agoThat's more of a human problem in general. We don't like having our preconceptions challenged. It might mean we have to rethink our understanding of the world.