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Sure, I'll believe that an ammunition fire on the Moskva is what sank it. Hower that fire was caused by... Top contenders are missile and inept crew. Looks lik

Sure, I'll believe that an ammunition fire on the Moskva is what sank it. Hower that fire was caused by... Top contenders are missile and inept crew. Looks like Russia would rather we accept that the crew was inept than it was sun by a Ukrainian made missile

dekhn 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causati... note the very first example is a sinking ship
pmoriarty 4y ago
"Top contenders are missile and inept crew." It could also be sabotage by a Russian crewmember or foreign infiltrator.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  You forgot the aliens.
  - vba616 4y ago
    Literally in this same thread people are referencing a well-known case of sabotage on an American ship not that long ago. Said to have caused severe damage. On a Russian ship, though, it's as absurd an idea as space aliens? I don't wish to debate hypotheticals, because I generally am not certain about uncertain things. On a meta level, though, I am very curious where other people get their certainty from. I would like to hear more about how you identify paranoid fantasies.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      On a Russian ship currently actively involved in a war that was claimed to have been hit by a missile that stands off-shore way over the horizon yes, sabotage is just as absurd as space aliens.
      - vba616 4y ago
        >On a Russian ship currently actively involved in a war that was claimed to have been hit by a missile that stands off-shore way over the horizon yes, sabotage is just as absurd as space aliens. I don't understand what you are saying at all. Sabotage can't happen during a war? Or sabotage can't happen on a ship that wasn't hit by a missile? Or sabotage can't happen on a ship that was hit by a missile? Or sabotage can't happen to Russians at all? Or sabotage by Russians can't happen on one of their ships?
netsharc 4y ago
Someone should remake "The front fell off" video[1] but fitting the context: A Russian reporter interviewing the Russian defense minister. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

dekhn 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causati... note the very first example is a sinking ship

pmoriarty 4y ago

"Top contenders are missile and inept crew." It could also be sabotage by a Russian crewmember or foreign infiltrator.

jacquesm 4y ago
You forgot the aliens.
- vba616 4y ago
  Literally in this same thread people are referencing a well-known case of sabotage on an American ship not that long ago. Said to have caused severe damage. On a Russian ship, though, it's as absurd an idea as space aliens? I don't wish to debate hypotheticals, because I generally am not certain about uncertain things. On a meta level, though, I am very curious where other people get their certainty from. I would like to hear more about how you identify paranoid fantasies.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    On a Russian ship currently actively involved in a war that was claimed to have been hit by a missile that stands off-shore way over the horizon yes, sabotage is just as absurd as space aliens.
    - vba616 4y ago
      >On a Russian ship currently actively involved in a war that was claimed to have been hit by a missile that stands off-shore way over the horizon yes, sabotage is just as absurd as space aliens. I don't understand what you are saying at all. Sabotage can't happen during a war? Or sabotage can't happen on a ship that wasn't hit by a missile? Or sabotage can't happen on a ship that was hit by a missile? Or sabotage can't happen to Russians at all? Or sabotage by Russians can't happen on one of their ships?

netsharc 4y ago

Someone should remake "The front fell off" video[1] but fitting the context: A Russian reporter interviewing the Russian defense minister. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM