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Cool project but I wonder if the name will catch flak from the lawyers. Trademarks and all that. At they very least a big "This is not affiliated with Google/Yo

by bragr 5y ago

Cool project but I wonder if the name will catch flak from the lawyers. Trademarks and all that. At they very least a big "This is not affiliated with Google/Youtube" seems like a wise precaution.

wvenable 5y ago
They should immediately rename it so as not to be caught the way YouTube Vanced was. A disclaimer is not a sufficient response to trademark issues.
- ______-_-______ 5y ago
  Or do this: 1. Release it as youtube.js for the name recognition 2. Wait for the certified letter 3. Announce you're renaming your project and get another 24 hours of exposure in the news This guy is playing the game.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Something like this lives or dies based on how much you annoy the people with lawyers to spare. Doesn't seem like the best plan.
    - actually_a_dog 5y ago
      Is there any better plan in an era where the real currency is attention?
      - kadoban 5y ago
        I doubt having the project named after youtube is that important for attention.
        actually_a_dog 5y ago
        The attention comes from the stories that happen after they leak the C&D that Alphabet is going to send them for naming it after youtube, then quickly roll out a rename.
        kadoban 5y ago
        Well ... good luck to them I guess. That does not sound like a plan I'd personally enjoy.
Nextgrid 5y ago
They should rename it to Innertube.js (which is the official name of the private API, and as far as I know not trademarked not used in any user-facing resources).
- delusional 5y ago
  Valve.js would also work, since it allows access to the innertube.
  - moffkalast 5y ago
    And that would totally not infringe on anything else, right.
    - vosper 5y ago
      It probably wouldn't, because it would be clear that it's got nothing to do with Valve the gaming software company. Trademarks aren't blanket coverage of any possible uses of a name.
      - zinekeller 5y ago
        Not really, there are rigid categorisation of trademarks (Nice Classification). All software is in Class 42 (https://www.wipo.int/classifications/nice/nclpub/en/fr/?basic_numbers=show&class_number=42&explanatory_notes=show&lang=enfr&menulang=en&mode=flat&notion=&pagination=no&version=20220101 https://www.wipo.int/classifications/nice/nclpub/en/fr/?basi...) so Valve would actually have standing here. PS: Nice here refers to the French town (compare to Berne Convention, Geneva Convention, Treaty of Paris), not the common meaning in English.
        vosper 5y ago
        Thanks for pointing that out
        moffkalast 5y ago
ushakov 5y ago
they have a disclaimer below https://github.com/LuanRT/YouTube.js#disclaimer https://github.com/LuanRT/YouTube.js#disclaimer edit: why am i getting downvoted?
- freedomben 5y ago
  IANAL but I've worked with some of them and I'd guess that isn't sufficient. My advice to avoid any negative attention from YT/Google (but again IANAL) would be to do two things: 1. Move the "this is an unofficial" disclaimer at the top and bold and/or italic it so it's totally unmissable. I would use the same approach as MarshallOfSound: https://github.com/MarshallOfSound/Google-Play-Music-Desktop-Player-UNOFFICIAL- https://github.com/MarshallOfSound/Google-Play-Music-Desktop... 2. Praise Youtube/Google for having such a great API that empowers and enables their users to get the most out of their subscription. Make sure to point out the (true) benefits that YT gets from having a library like this that is available but they don't have to maintain and promise nothing to.
- saurik 5y ago
  The disclaimer doesn't really matter, as 1) we wouldn't really expect that many people to read it and 2) it is going to get used in a ton of contexts without that disclaimer... such as in the headline of this Hacker News post. I can't make a company "Apple Computer Backstage" and just put a little note on my website that says "Apple Computer Backstage has no involvement with Apple Computer". This project simply should not have "YouTube" in its name... or, if it absolutely must, it at least needs to be on the other side of some kind of preposition. This insistence upon using other peoples' trademarks in the names of third-party clients based on adversarial interoperability--something that the company often has every reason to "throw the book at" as it is inherently hostile--is what ends up killing the vast majority of these projects over time. This isn't "in for a penny, in for a pound": you need to carefully choose your battles, and flagrantly violating someone's trademarks is going to be your weakest link as it is such low hanging legal fruit and doesn't actually buy you anything.
throwaway0x7E6 5y ago
are you people seriously under the impression that trademarks and such make any difference if a big US corporation wants to fuck you? they can sue you out of existence for violating laws you aren't subject to and/or EULA you've never agreed to
- vosper 5y ago
  Well it certainly makes it easier for them if you've violated their trademarks.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  So why give them an easy out?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by bragr 5y ago

Cool project but I wonder if the name will catch flak from the lawyers. Trademarks and all that. At they very least a big "This is not affiliated with Google/Youtube" seems like a wise precaution.

wvenable 5y ago

They should immediately rename it so as not to be caught the way YouTube Vanced was. A disclaimer is not a sufficient response to trademark issues.

______-_-______ 5y ago
Or do this: 1. Release it as youtube.js for the name recognition 2. Wait for the certified letter 3. Announce you're renaming your project and get another 24 hours of exposure in the news This guy is playing the game.
- kadoban 5y ago
  Something like this lives or dies based on how much you annoy the people with lawyers to spare. Doesn't seem like the best plan.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    Is there any better plan in an era where the real currency is attention?
    - kadoban 5y ago
      I doubt having the project named after youtube is that important for attention.
      - actually_a_dog 5y ago
        The attention comes from the stories that happen after they leak the C&D that Alphabet is going to send them for naming it after youtube, then quickly roll out a rename.
        kadoban 5y ago
        Well ... good luck to them I guess. That does not sound like a plan I'd personally enjoy.

Nextgrid 5y ago

They should rename it to Innertube.js (which is the official name of the private API, and as far as I know not trademarked not used in any user-facing resources).

delusional 5y ago
Valve.js would also work, since it allows access to the innertube.
- moffkalast 5y ago
  And that would totally not infringe on anything else, right.
  - vosper 5y ago
    It probably wouldn't, because it would be clear that it's got nothing to do with Valve the gaming software company. Trademarks aren't blanket coverage of any possible uses of a name.
    - zinekeller 5y ago
      Not really, there are rigid categorisation of trademarks (Nice Classification). All software is in Class 42 (https://www.wipo.int/classifications/nice/nclpub/en/fr/?basic_numbers=show&class_number=42&explanatory_notes=show&lang=enfr&menulang=en&mode=flat&notion=&pagination=no&version=20220101 https://www.wipo.int/classifications/nice/nclpub/en/fr/?basi...) so Valve would actually have standing here. PS: Nice here refers to the French town (compare to Berne Convention, Geneva Convention, Treaty of Paris), not the common meaning in English.
      - vosper 5y ago
        Thanks for pointing that out
      - moffkalast 5y ago

ushakov 5y ago

they have a disclaimer below https://github.com/LuanRT/YouTube.js#disclaimer https://github.com/LuanRT/YouTube.js#disclaimer edit: why am i getting downvoted?

freedomben 5y ago
IANAL but I've worked with some of them and I'd guess that isn't sufficient. My advice to avoid any negative attention from YT/Google (but again IANAL) would be to do two things: 1. Move the "this is an unofficial" disclaimer at the top and bold and/or italic it so it's totally unmissable. I would use the same approach as MarshallOfSound: https://github.com/MarshallOfSound/Google-Play-Music-Desktop-Player-UNOFFICIAL- https://github.com/MarshallOfSound/Google-Play-Music-Desktop... 2. Praise Youtube/Google for having such a great API that empowers and enables their users to get the most out of their subscription. Make sure to point out the (true) benefits that YT gets from having a library like this that is available but they don't have to maintain and promise nothing to.
saurik 5y ago
The disclaimer doesn't really matter, as 1) we wouldn't really expect that many people to read it and 2) it is going to get used in a ton of contexts without that disclaimer... such as in the headline of this Hacker News post. I can't make a company "Apple Computer Backstage" and just put a little note on my website that says "Apple Computer Backstage has no involvement with Apple Computer". This project simply should not have "YouTube" in its name... or, if it absolutely must, it at least needs to be on the other side of some kind of preposition. This insistence upon using other peoples' trademarks in the names of third-party clients based on adversarial interoperability--something that the company often has every reason to "throw the book at" as it is inherently hostile--is what ends up killing the vast majority of these projects over time. This isn't "in for a penny, in for a pound": you need to carefully choose your battles, and flagrantly violating someone's trademarks is going to be your weakest link as it is such low hanging legal fruit and doesn't actually buy you anything.

throwaway0x7E6 5y ago

are you people seriously under the impression that trademarks and such make any difference if a big US corporation wants to fuck you? they can sue you out of existence for violating laws you aren't subject to and/or EULA you've never agreed to

vosper 5y ago
Well it certainly makes it easier for them if you've violated their trademarks.
aspenmayer 5y ago
So why give them an easy out?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]