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A lot of comments have said "stay in therapy" or "quit therapy", but my immediate reaction is that maybe you have the wrong (ineffective) therapist and need to

A lot of comments have said "stay in therapy" or "quit therapy", but my immediate reaction is that maybe you have the wrong (ineffective) therapist and need to switch. My spidey sense went up when you mentioned what "you told your therapist", full stop. I was at least expecting "what my therapist responded" or "what my therapist told me that didn't work". That really (spidey sense, no evidence really) implies that your therapist is having low impact. I've had half a dozen therapists in my life. What I realized is there's a huge difference between most therapists and good ones. With a typical therapist, not much happens, you phone it in and they don't notice or call you on it. A good therapist somehow has a way of listening and then catching you properly off guard at least once or twice a session. They can stare into your soul and see through your bullshit, even when you don't notice the bullshit you're saying. If you don't feel that incisiveness, perhaps it's time to start shopping for a new therapist. Therapy really is a 100x profession.

siva7 5y ago
This is so true. It's not easy but the quality of the therapist makes all the difference
IE6 5y ago
also has OP explored pharmaceuticals? I did a year of prozac, am off now, and it completely reset me. The hole I was in and was incapable of climbing out of by myself is now in the rear view mirror. edit - I missed it in OP - but perhaps the same feedback, try something else? good luck OP.
hnaccount141 5y ago
Absolutely. And even among good therapists, good fit is critical. Just because someone comes highly recommended by others doesn't mean they'll be right for you.
amelius 5y ago
The problem with therapists is that they never say what they are doing, what approach they are taking or what techniques they are applying. This makes them less trustworthy, imho.
- comrh 5y ago
  Ask them, it's common now for them to advertise their approach (CBT, DBT, psychoanalysis, ect)
- Kaze404 5y ago
  You can likely just ask them, but either way I saw their methods plainly advertised when I went looking for an online therapist in early 2021.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kradeelav 5y ago
  psychologytoday's actually a really great place to find these details for local therapists. specialties (trauma, relationships, kids, etc) and likewise training techniques (IFS, CBT, so on). It may have been harder pre-covid but I think covid's shaken up that industry quite a bit.
- grvdrm 5y ago
  I wonder if any of that matters? Optimizing for the things you mentioned feels a bit like overkill. As a non-therapist, I don’t know whether one way of executing therapy is better than another. I really think it’s simpler than that: find the closest therapist, do an eval session, and see if it fits. If not, try again with next closest. Personal referrals are good too.
beetle 5y ago
Add to the "choose your therapist" idea, the idea that maybe talky therapy alone might not work. Practical activities as a means of therapy recently helped me with my mental illness; specifically, doing outdoor crafts alongside other mental health sufferers, with day-long sessions led by professionals. I learned to whittle and to prune trees, and met new people, and conformed my life to a weekly routine. I felt a great sense of community, and satisfaction from the immediacy of working with wood. The therapy lasted eight weeks, with promise to do more in the future. It was very informal, with a little structured discussion at the start and end of each day, but no pressure to talk in depth about problems. The course has helped me more than talking with a doctor or trying CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy). It was a proper, medically referred course of therapy. I was told it's quite new. I'm in my late 30s, in case you're wondering. I live in the UK. I had been suffering depressive symptoms on top of my existing schizophrenia, feeling very lonely and like life had ended for me. The course reversed that. I recommend trying something practical and creative, with an immediately perceptible result (like whittling), and joining that community; if you haven't already tried. If you can access this through your doctor, then great.
goatkey 5y ago
Agreed wholeheartedly. I was recently listening to the podcast You Are Not So Smart with an interview from an author named Britt Frank [0]. She discusses exactly the problem with low value therapists and how they can actually be really harmful as part of a broader conversation about feeling “stuck”. I really recommend the episode. After listening, I ordered the book, but haven’t yet read it, so I cannot recommend the book just yet. [0]: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/04/05/yanss-229-britt-franks-advice-for-escaping-life-loops-dealing-with-trauma-and-building-the-psychological-momentum-required-to-get-yourself-unstuck/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/04/05/yanss-229-britt-fran...
narrator 5y ago
He could also try Internal Family Systems (IFS). It's way better than cognitive behavioral therapy, IMHO, because it's about understanding the parts of the psyche. This includes the helpful, not so helpful, and parts that make us do negative behaviors and coming to terms with them instead of suppressing them. I feel like my IFS trained therapist is actually a professional doing skilled work helping me explore and understand my personality instead of just being a rent-a-friend like my previous therapists.
- Trasmatta 5y ago
  I'm starting to have success with IFS. It's a bit weird at first. But I like how it actually listens to and tries to understand the various parts that make up your psyche, rather than just convincing them that they're wrong, like in CBT. I find CBT exercises helpful, but at some point we need more than just pointing out cognitive distortions.
toshk 5y ago
This is not a problem of therapy, but a question of meaning. We need meaning in live. And for a long time religion gave that. But we threw that out. We now try to get "profesional therapy help". But it hardly has any scientific backing, and no one but religion has been able (even though it fails often) been offer te give any deeper answer to the question to "whats the meaning of it all". The best solutions people like Robbins or J. Peterson offer are: just keep running so you don't think about it.
- nutherthro321 5y ago
  The problem with religion is that the vices of hypocrisy and selfishness are rampant in the people who claim to understand it. The problem with the people without religion is that they don't understand anything and are usually just trying to grift people. Both are bad for humanity, the former actually worse because they pervert the meaning of this beautiful universe and what this life could be, if only people would go within and find the help to get beyond their selfishness. The meaning of life is to simply be happy, but we cannot be happy when others are so unhappy, therefore we must live our lives for others' happiness. Every act of compassionate service to those around us causes an upwelling of happiness within our hearts. Only by living in a service-oriented society where we look after each other compassionately can we hope to find peace and happiness. This world teaches us that selfish greed with a callous, willful ignorance of the suffering of others, is the goal of life, but that will always -- I mean always -- lead to a miserable, empty life, especially in this world full of woe. The journey of religion is to go within one's self and seek God's Will for our lives, to ask in humility to become an agent of others' happiness. Then you will be guided to the path that will take you there. Ask every day and every night and be thankful for what you have such that you become a kind, generous person. And remember that that selfish, ignorant Peterson guy perverted the teachings of religion for his own selfish enrichment and power, and that he has no peace (not without benzos that is). You don't want that fate. We must cultivate our compassion and sense of worldwide community. It is not only essential for our species' survival (via global warming and the brutal fascists all over the Earth), but for our own personal happiness and peace. "The Way goes in." --Rumi
  - 5y ago
johnfn 5y ago
This comment is extremely well written and on point. In fact, I feel like I'm having the opposite of the "HN is turning into Reddit" illusion, where I feel that over the last year or two the quality of discourse on HN has improved (!): more and more, well-reasoned life advice floats to the top of comment threads. The thread about marriage and divorce had similarly good insights yesterday. Either that, or I've just matured and I can appreciate it all more :)
thaway2839 5y ago
I think an important part about therapy is the fact that you really do have to be willing to jump around a bit before you find a therapist who you are comfortable with. All the therapists I've come across have been excellent at what they do. Yet, therapy is a 2 way process, and if anything, demands more of the patient than it does of the therapist. So if things are not working out definitely try someone else.
pcurve 5y ago
On average, people go through 4 therapists before they find one that works for them.
sharadov 5y ago
Absolutely agree, had this one therapist for my son who has ADHD, she would listen to all our concerns and not offer a single suggestion. She would just have this blank stare.
fabioz 5y ago
My 2c: not all therapies are the same... I recommend you start with a professional that works with `Cognitive Therapy` (from what I've heard it's one of the more recent therapies and its practices are based on evidences -- that's not the case for all therapies out there).
bspear 5y ago
Amen, important to try out different therapists and see whose style is the best for you. With that said, I think it also helps to diversify your portfolio of meaning. Sounds like you identify "summit" and "zenith" as the latest happenings in your career, but depending on the season of your life, there will always be different ups and downs. Found this article useful: https://every.to/superorganizers/against-ikigai https://every.to/superorganizers/against-ikigai

siva7 5y ago

This is so true. It's not easy but the quality of the therapist makes all the difference

IE6 5y ago

also has OP explored pharmaceuticals? I did a year of prozac, am off now, and it completely reset me. The hole I was in and was incapable of climbing out of by myself is now in the rear view mirror. edit - I missed it in OP - but perhaps the same feedback, try something else? good luck OP.

hnaccount141 5y ago

Absolutely. And even among good therapists, good fit is critical. Just because someone comes highly recommended by others doesn't mean they'll be right for you.

amelius 5y ago

The problem with therapists is that they never say what they are doing, what approach they are taking or what techniques they are applying. This makes them less trustworthy, imho.

comrh 5y ago
Ask them, it's common now for them to advertise their approach (CBT, DBT, psychoanalysis, ect)
Kaze404 5y ago
You can likely just ask them, but either way I saw their methods plainly advertised when I went looking for an online therapist in early 2021.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kradeelav 5y ago
psychologytoday's actually a really great place to find these details for local therapists. specialties (trauma, relationships, kids, etc) and likewise training techniques (IFS, CBT, so on). It may have been harder pre-covid but I think covid's shaken up that industry quite a bit.
grvdrm 5y ago
I wonder if any of that matters? Optimizing for the things you mentioned feels a bit like overkill. As a non-therapist, I don’t know whether one way of executing therapy is better than another. I really think it’s simpler than that: find the closest therapist, do an eval session, and see if it fits. If not, try again with next closest. Personal referrals are good too.

beetle 5y ago

Add to the "choose your therapist" idea, the idea that maybe talky therapy alone might not work. Practical activities as a means of therapy recently helped me with my mental illness; specifically, doing outdoor crafts alongside other mental health sufferers, with day-long sessions led by professionals. I learned to whittle and to prune trees, and met new people, and conformed my life to a weekly routine. I felt a great sense of community, and satisfaction from the immediacy of working with wood. The therapy lasted eight weeks, with promise to do more in the future. It was very informal, with a little structured discussion at the start and end of each day, but no pressure to talk in depth about problems. The course has helped me more than talking with a doctor or trying CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy). It was a proper, medically referred course of therapy. I was told it's quite new. I'm in my late 30s, in case you're wondering. I live in the UK. I had been suffering depressive symptoms on top of my existing schizophrenia, feeling very lonely and like life had ended for me. The course reversed that. I recommend trying something practical and creative, with an immediately perceptible result (like whittling), and joining that community; if you haven't already tried. If you can access this through your doctor, then great.

goatkey 5y ago

Agreed wholeheartedly. I was recently listening to the podcast You Are Not So Smart with an interview from an author named Britt Frank [0]. She discusses exactly the problem with low value therapists and how they can actually be really harmful as part of a broader conversation about feeling “stuck”. I really recommend the episode. After listening, I ordered the book, but haven’t yet read it, so I cannot recommend the book just yet. [0]: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/04/05/yanss-229-britt-franks-advice-for-escaping-life-loops-dealing-with-trauma-and-building-the-psychological-momentum-required-to-get-yourself-unstuck/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/04/05/yanss-229-britt-fran...

narrator 5y ago

He could also try Internal Family Systems (IFS). It's way better than cognitive behavioral therapy, IMHO, because it's about understanding the parts of the psyche. This includes the helpful, not so helpful, and parts that make us do negative behaviors and coming to terms with them instead of suppressing them. I feel like my IFS trained therapist is actually a professional doing skilled work helping me explore and understand my personality instead of just being a rent-a-friend like my previous therapists.

Trasmatta 5y ago
I'm starting to have success with IFS. It's a bit weird at first. But I like how it actually listens to and tries to understand the various parts that make up your psyche, rather than just convincing them that they're wrong, like in CBT. I find CBT exercises helpful, but at some point we need more than just pointing out cognitive distortions.

toshk 5y ago

This is not a problem of therapy, but a question of meaning. We need meaning in live. And for a long time religion gave that. But we threw that out. We now try to get "profesional therapy help". But it hardly has any scientific backing, and no one but religion has been able (even though it fails often) been offer te give any deeper answer to the question to "whats the meaning of it all". The best solutions people like Robbins or J. Peterson offer are: just keep running so you don't think about it.

nutherthro321 5y ago
The problem with religion is that the vices of hypocrisy and selfishness are rampant in the people who claim to understand it. The problem with the people without religion is that they don't understand anything and are usually just trying to grift people. Both are bad for humanity, the former actually worse because they pervert the meaning of this beautiful universe and what this life could be, if only people would go within and find the help to get beyond their selfishness. The meaning of life is to simply be happy, but we cannot be happy when others are so unhappy, therefore we must live our lives for others' happiness. Every act of compassionate service to those around us causes an upwelling of happiness within our hearts. Only by living in a service-oriented society where we look after each other compassionately can we hope to find peace and happiness. This world teaches us that selfish greed with a callous, willful ignorance of the suffering of others, is the goal of life, but that will always -- I mean always -- lead to a miserable, empty life, especially in this world full of woe. The journey of religion is to go within one's self and seek God's Will for our lives, to ask in humility to become an agent of others' happiness. Then you will be guided to the path that will take you there. Ask every day and every night and be thankful for what you have such that you become a kind, generous person. And remember that that selfish, ignorant Peterson guy perverted the teachings of religion for his own selfish enrichment and power, and that he has no peace (not without benzos that is). You don't want that fate. We must cultivate our compassion and sense of worldwide community. It is not only essential for our species' survival (via global warming and the brutal fascists all over the Earth), but for our own personal happiness and peace. "The Way goes in." --Rumi
- 5y ago

johnfn 5y ago

This comment is extremely well written and on point. In fact, I feel like I'm having the opposite of the "HN is turning into Reddit" illusion, where I feel that over the last year or two the quality of discourse on HN has improved (!): more and more, well-reasoned life advice floats to the top of comment threads. The thread about marriage and divorce had similarly good insights yesterday. Either that, or I've just matured and I can appreciate it all more :)

thaway2839 5y ago

I think an important part about therapy is the fact that you really do have to be willing to jump around a bit before you find a therapist who you are comfortable with. All the therapists I've come across have been excellent at what they do. Yet, therapy is a 2 way process, and if anything, demands more of the patient than it does of the therapist. So if things are not working out definitely try someone else.

pcurve 5y ago

On average, people go through 4 therapists before they find one that works for them.

sharadov 5y ago

Absolutely agree, had this one therapist for my son who has ADHD, she would listen to all our concerns and not offer a single suggestion. She would just have this blank stare.

fabioz 5y ago

My 2c: not all therapies are the same... I recommend you start with a professional that works with `Cognitive Therapy` (from what I've heard it's one of the more recent therapies and its practices are based on evidences -- that's not the case for all therapies out there).

bspear 5y ago

Amen, important to try out different therapists and see whose style is the best for you. With that said, I think it also helps to diversify your portfolio of meaning. Sounds like you identify "summit" and "zenith" as the latest happenings in your career, but depending on the season of your life, there will always be different ups and downs. Found this article useful: https://every.to/superorganizers/against-ikigai https://every.to/superorganizers/against-ikigai