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The article meanders, but I think it does land on a point. There are tons of 'self made' people out there that have had unending support from their parents, ev

The article meanders, but I think it does land on a point. There are tons of 'self made' people out there that have had unending support from their parents, every step of the way. That support gets you a huge leg-up when you're competing against peers raised without it. Failure is of no consequence when your safety net is a trampoline.

qazpot 5y ago
Does having supporting parents undermine any success a self made person might have ?
- nix0n 5y ago
  > supporting parents > self made The two concepts cannot coexist. Someone who is supported by others is not self-made. Turning wealth into wealth is not an accomplishment. It was already there.
  - marioletto 5y ago
    > Turning wealth into wealth is not an accomplishment. Where do you draw the line? How is the work of doubling the wealth received as inheritance different from doubling the wealth of a client?
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    Yes, truly, unless you have been raised by rabid wolves or alone in the void of space, you are not self made. Is there a point in even having this word, if it is literally impossible for it to correctly(according to you) be used in any scenario?
    - nix0n 5y ago
      My comment got kind of far from its context, visually. By "supporting" I'm really referring to significant amounts of financial support, beyond what normal people would be able to give to their children. I do think it's possible for a person to be self-made. But I think the much narrower concept of the "self-made American millionaire" does more harm than good, as a mythological idea in US politics. Edit: Before you reply to this, read a little more of the thread I'm saying this in, where other people are making this point more eloquently.
      - Handytinge 5y ago
        I'm curious, who is more "self-made" in your opinion, someone with unsupportive parents who provide money, or someone with supportive (emotionally) parents without money? What about someone that had neither, but due to the country they grew up in or the colour of their skin they have access to government funded incentive programs, or bank loans? What if you benefited from colonialism hundreds of years ago, or the establishment of infrastucture such as roads or telephone lines? Are you self made? This weird privilege check doesn't make much sense to me. The "self-made" test to me is "did you put in the work and do the grind?". That's it.
- marioletto 5y ago
  Of course not but it’s an easy target for this kind of articles. Like the natural wine.
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  Only if they (or others) imply that "everyone could have done it" and use their "self-made" success to argue against social safety-nets like unemployment benefits and healthcare for all.
  - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
    Well said.
- antisthenes 5y ago
  Only if they don't acknowledge they would have accomplished less (or nothing) without it.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  Absolutely not, but that person is in no position to then turn around and judge those who are struggling, or more subtly, refusing to support policies that would help those that are struggling. There isn't the blatant 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' admonishment but there is absolutely an empathy gap between the haves and have nots.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    And they shouldn’t be held up as role models in the media.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  It does very much undermine the claim of being “self made”.
legitster 5y ago
I don't think the group described is so much the "self-made" crowd so much as the "longsuffering, chronically underemployed millennial". I personally have a lot of friends to who fit this description to a T - they will complain about living paycheck to paycheck but then also tell you which island in Hawaii is their favorite. And when you wonder why they are still turning down good paying jobs in their 30s you realize they eventually have a house and a sizable inheritance they are looking forward to one day.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I have a friend. His parents have bent over backwards to support him, and he stands to take over his father's business when he can no longer tend to it. The dude is smart, but he completely lacks any drive to push himself. I feel like it's sucked the wind right out of his sails, but he lives a chill, easy going life and I can't exactly hold it against him.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    It’s never good to make assumptions about the future that result in you prematurely cutting off potential opportunities, particularly in terms of inheritance. Anything can happen.
- legitster 5y ago
  In this regard, this is almost a warning about the "stealth wealthy" - people who talk about poverty and show up statistically as impoverished, but are really just role playing as poor people.
  - HeyImAlex 5y ago
    I think that millenials are probably _better_ as a whole on acknowledging the role their privileges have played in their success. At least in my cohort, the odds of someone who had a great upbringing telling you unironically to pull yourself up from your bootstraps is basically zero. Also, I think calling it roleplaying is a little misleading because it implies they could stop if they wanted to. You can have a gigantic parental safety net and still have no great job prospects. It’s infinitely better than actually being poor, but there’s enough overlap to commiserate I think? People want to be self sufficient and can’t.
HeyImAlex 5y ago
Is any of that news though? This article seems like it’s trying so hard to point out something unique, but other than shifting tastes it seems the same as it ever was.
- whymauri 5y ago
  People with wealthy parents are more likely to be wealthy later in life. People who perform wage labor and do not have inheritances will not have as much wealth. More news at 11, thank you for attending my TED Talk.
lumost 5y ago
It took me a long time to realize that even in Tech, the reason many choose the founder/startup track is simply because their basic middle class lifestyle and retirement were assured from the day they were born. Otherwise it simply would never be financially wise to take a job at a hot startup, or start your own business. Meanwhile there are many engineers who actively choose this lifestyle.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  I was naive and blind to this fact for way too long. I just assumed that everyone that founded a startup had a cast iron constitution and could somehow stomach the risk of destitution if it failed. It only later dawned on me how little risk these people were taking. It was almost all 'opportunity cost' for them.
- HeyImAlex 5y ago
  Look at any field that’s somewhat prestigious but oversaturated enough that owners can pay poverty wages and you’ll find a ton of rich kids trying to live their dream! See art, film, journalism, architecture, political staffers. Can you blame them? I think it’s important that young folks see this and internalize it so they’re not caught with tens of thousands of dollars in student debt in a field that ultimately depends on time and luck. You’re risking a lot more than many of your peers, and you’re going to have less freedom and energy to make it work.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

qazpot 5y ago

Does having supporting parents undermine any success a self made person might have ?

nix0n 5y ago
> supporting parents > self made The two concepts cannot coexist. Someone who is supported by others is not self-made. Turning wealth into wealth is not an accomplishment. It was already there.
- marioletto 5y ago
  > Turning wealth into wealth is not an accomplishment. Where do you draw the line? How is the work of doubling the wealth received as inheritance different from doubling the wealth of a client?
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  Yes, truly, unless you have been raised by rabid wolves or alone in the void of space, you are not self made. Is there a point in even having this word, if it is literally impossible for it to correctly(according to you) be used in any scenario?
  - nix0n 5y ago
    My comment got kind of far from its context, visually. By "supporting" I'm really referring to significant amounts of financial support, beyond what normal people would be able to give to their children. I do think it's possible for a person to be self-made. But I think the much narrower concept of the "self-made American millionaire" does more harm than good, as a mythological idea in US politics. Edit: Before you reply to this, read a little more of the thread I'm saying this in, where other people are making this point more eloquently.
    - Handytinge 5y ago
      I'm curious, who is more "self-made" in your opinion, someone with unsupportive parents who provide money, or someone with supportive (emotionally) parents without money? What about someone that had neither, but due to the country they grew up in or the colour of their skin they have access to government funded incentive programs, or bank loans? What if you benefited from colonialism hundreds of years ago, or the establishment of infrastucture such as roads or telephone lines? Are you self made? This weird privilege check doesn't make much sense to me. The "self-made" test to me is "did you put in the work and do the grind?". That's it.
marioletto 5y ago
Of course not but it’s an easy target for this kind of articles. Like the natural wine.
black_puppydog 5y ago
Only if they (or others) imply that "everyone could have done it" and use their "self-made" success to argue against social safety-nets like unemployment benefits and healthcare for all.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  Well said.
antisthenes 5y ago
Only if they don't acknowledge they would have accomplished less (or nothing) without it.
wing-_-nuts 5y ago
Absolutely not, but that person is in no position to then turn around and judge those who are struggling, or more subtly, refusing to support policies that would help those that are struggling. There isn't the blatant 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' admonishment but there is absolutely an empathy gap between the haves and have nots.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  And they shouldn’t be held up as role models in the media.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
It does very much undermine the claim of being “self made”.

legitster 5y ago

I don't think the group described is so much the "self-made" crowd so much as the "longsuffering, chronically underemployed millennial". I personally have a lot of friends to who fit this description to a T - they will complain about living paycheck to paycheck but then also tell you which island in Hawaii is their favorite. And when you wonder why they are still turning down good paying jobs in their 30s you realize they eventually have a house and a sizable inheritance they are looking forward to one day.

wing-_-nuts 5y ago
Anecdotally, I have a friend. His parents have bent over backwards to support him, and he stands to take over his father's business when he can no longer tend to it. The dude is smart, but he completely lacks any drive to push himself. I feel like it's sucked the wind right out of his sails, but he lives a chill, easy going life and I can't exactly hold it against him.
- azinman2 5y ago
  It’s never good to make assumptions about the future that result in you prematurely cutting off potential opportunities, particularly in terms of inheritance. Anything can happen.
legitster 5y ago
In this regard, this is almost a warning about the "stealth wealthy" - people who talk about poverty and show up statistically as impoverished, but are really just role playing as poor people.
- HeyImAlex 5y ago
  I think that millenials are probably _better_ as a whole on acknowledging the role their privileges have played in their success. At least in my cohort, the odds of someone who had a great upbringing telling you unironically to pull yourself up from your bootstraps is basically zero. Also, I think calling it roleplaying is a little misleading because it implies they could stop if they wanted to. You can have a gigantic parental safety net and still have no great job prospects. It’s infinitely better than actually being poor, but there’s enough overlap to commiserate I think? People want to be self sufficient and can’t.

HeyImAlex 5y ago

Is any of that news though? This article seems like it’s trying so hard to point out something unique, but other than shifting tastes it seems the same as it ever was.

whymauri 5y ago
People with wealthy parents are more likely to be wealthy later in life. People who perform wage labor and do not have inheritances will not have as much wealth. More news at 11, thank you for attending my TED Talk.

lumost 5y ago

It took me a long time to realize that even in Tech, the reason many choose the founder/startup track is simply because their basic middle class lifestyle and retirement were assured from the day they were born. Otherwise it simply would never be financially wise to take a job at a hot startup, or start your own business. Meanwhile there are many engineers who actively choose this lifestyle.

wing-_-nuts 5y ago
I was naive and blind to this fact for way too long. I just assumed that everyone that founded a startup had a cast iron constitution and could somehow stomach the risk of destitution if it failed. It only later dawned on me how little risk these people were taking. It was almost all 'opportunity cost' for them.
HeyImAlex 5y ago
Look at any field that’s somewhat prestigious but oversaturated enough that owners can pay poverty wages and you’ll find a ton of rich kids trying to live their dream! See art, film, journalism, architecture, political staffers. Can you blame them? I think it’s important that young folks see this and internalize it so they’re not caught with tens of thousands of dollars in student debt in a field that ultimately depends on time and luck. You’re risking a lot more than many of your peers, and you’re going to have less freedom and energy to make it work.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]