5 ms·

I read it as a threat too... is it not against the SEC's rules for market manipulation?

no-dr-onboard 5y ago
Certainly someone out there agrees with you. Realistically, a lawsuit would certainly quell the interest in this and drag this issue into relative obscurity over the course of years. Timeless tactic.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  It is almost certain that whatever happens, there will be a lawsuit. Suing twitter, the board, elon, maybe the SEC (possibly multiple in different directions). It happens with almost any large move where there is even a hint that something happened incorrectly.
  - rrdharan 5y ago
    More like it happens with any large move period, no hints needed, because the expected value payoff of a lawsuit in that case typically makes it a worthwhile exercise.
Hamuko 5y ago
Musk being known as a long-time fan of the SEC with a respect for their rules.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
coffeeblack 5y ago
How so? He is even giving more information about his future intention than he had to.
- thebradbain 5y ago
  That's where the market manipulation comes into play. Acknowledging/threatening a possible pump and dump if he doesn't get his way could clear the SEC's bar of "Intentional or willful conduct designed to deceive or defraud investors by controlling or artificially affecting the price of securities, or ... designed to drive a stock’s price up or down" Someone much smarter than I could likely argue that the "threat" of Elon possibly pulling out his investment in a company is affecting the stock price, and now suddenly Elon is in control of the direction of the stock, even though the underlying fundamentals have not been changed. https://www.sec.gov/files/Market%20Manipulations%20and%20Case%20Studies.pdf https://www.sec.gov/files/Market%20Manipulations%20and%20Cas...
  - dleslie 5y ago
    AFAICT, there's no deception or fraud in his behaviour; nor is there anything artificial - he's put real money down, and is offering real money. It's not like he's made a one-off tweet about it.
    - thebradbain 5y ago
      Not to get pedantic, but if you read their definition of market manipulation, there's another point that's unrelated to the deception/fraud clause (though those are loaded terms legally, and one again likely could argue they are) "Intentional interference with the free forces of supply and demand" He put money down (a lot of money down!), but that doesn't give him the right to manipulate the stock price purely based on the fact he has a stake on it or not; in fact it gives him a duty not to do so, because he now has a motive/vested interest in profiting off of it. There's rules to follow and forms to file to protect against that, and he's already has one lawsuit against him in that vein: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/14/business/twitter-lawsuit-elon-musk.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/14/business/twitter-lawsuit-...
      - dleslie 5y ago
        It sounds to me that you're interpreting that in such a broad way that you could argue that any stock purchases he makes would be in violation of this.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> is it not against the SEC's rules for market manipulation? Maybe, but he's also being sued over a violation of market manipulation rules with regard to non-disclosure of his recent Twitter purchase, and that's not the first problem he’s had with those rules. “Elon Musk” and “securities rules” don't really go together.
- thebradbain 5y ago
  I know; But I can't help but feel the SEC is just waiting to build up an open-and-shut case to really make an example out of him, as they usually do to high profile people who openly challenge them. Of course the richest man in the world is going to put up a very strong fight in court, and the SEC will not risk its authority by losing, so there can't be much ambiguity in any evidence they present

Certainly someone out there agrees with you. Realistically, a lawsuit would certainly quell the interest in this and drag this issue into relative obscurity over the course of years. Timeless tactic.

colechristensen 5y ago
It is almost certain that whatever happens, there will be a lawsuit. Suing twitter, the board, elon, maybe the SEC (possibly multiple in different directions). It happens with almost any large move where there is even a hint that something happened incorrectly.
- rrdharan 5y ago
  More like it happens with any large move period, no hints needed, because the expected value payoff of a lawsuit in that case typically makes it a worthwhile exercise.

Hamuko 5y ago

Musk being known as a long-time fan of the SEC with a respect for their rules.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

coffeeblack 5y ago

How so? He is even giving more information about his future intention than he had to.

thebradbain 5y ago
That's where the market manipulation comes into play. Acknowledging/threatening a possible pump and dump if he doesn't get his way could clear the SEC's bar of "Intentional or willful conduct designed to deceive or defraud investors by controlling or artificially affecting the price of securities, or ... designed to drive a stock’s price up or down" Someone much smarter than I could likely argue that the "threat" of Elon possibly pulling out his investment in a company is affecting the stock price, and now suddenly Elon is in control of the direction of the stock, even though the underlying fundamentals have not been changed. https://www.sec.gov/files/Market%20Manipulations%20and%20Case%20Studies.pdf https://www.sec.gov/files/Market%20Manipulations%20and%20Cas...
- dleslie 5y ago
  AFAICT, there's no deception or fraud in his behaviour; nor is there anything artificial - he's put real money down, and is offering real money. It's not like he's made a one-off tweet about it.
  - thebradbain 5y ago
    Not to get pedantic, but if you read their definition of market manipulation, there's another point that's unrelated to the deception/fraud clause (though those are loaded terms legally, and one again likely could argue they are) "Intentional interference with the free forces of supply and demand" He put money down (a lot of money down!), but that doesn't give him the right to manipulate the stock price purely based on the fact he has a stake on it or not; in fact it gives him a duty not to do so, because he now has a motive/vested interest in profiting off of it. There's rules to follow and forms to file to protect against that, and he's already has one lawsuit against him in that vein: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/14/business/twitter-lawsuit-elon-musk.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/14/business/twitter-lawsuit-...
    - dleslie 5y ago
      It sounds to me that you're interpreting that in such a broad way that you could argue that any stock purchases he makes would be in violation of this.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> is it not against the SEC's rules for market manipulation? Maybe, but he's also being sued over a violation of market manipulation rules with regard to non-disclosure of his recent Twitter purchase, and that's not the first problem he’s had with those rules. “Elon Musk” and “securities rules” don't really go together.

thebradbain 5y ago
I know; But I can't help but feel the SEC is just waiting to build up an open-and-shut case to really make an example out of him, as they usually do to high profile people who openly challenge them. Of course the richest man in the world is going to put up a very strong fight in court, and the SEC will not risk its authority by losing, so there can't be much ambiguity in any evidence they present