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As many as 15% of Americans may hold QAnon beliefs [1]. Where is the evidence that "the opportunity of exchanging error for truth" is actually being seized? It

As many as 15% of Americans may hold QAnon beliefs [1]. Where is the evidence that "the opportunity of exchanging error for truth" is actually being seized? It's all very well making an argument from principle, but if the real-world outcome is tens of millions of people believing absurd and dangerous conspiracy theories, I don't find the argument from principle very persuasive. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/us/politics/qanon-republicans-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/us/politics/qanon-republi...

Veen 5y ago
The evidence is that it's only 15%. Free speech doesn't guarantee everyone will have right beliefs. In fact, it's a certainly that in a free speech environment lots of people will have crazy beliefs. Free speech does, however, guarantee that no one group can control which ideas—crazy or not—can be expressed. And that, in the long run, ensures that there will be space to push back against the crazy and the harmful, which tends to be good for the less powerful.
- kadoban 5y ago
  If you're celerating that "only" 15% of people believe the most obvious bullshit anyone could possibly cook up, then your plan is flawed.
  - Veen 5y ago
    What would a non-flawed plan look like? One that results in everyone having "correct" beliefs? I'm pretty sure it would be a great deal worse than what we have now.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      Nuking social media from orbit would be a good start. Any platform where what content you're shown is primarily driven by an algorithm is very suspect.
      - Veen 5y ago
        On that we can agree. Social media is a scourge. But it's also true that people believed crazy things before social media.
        kadoban 5y ago
        They did, but a more manageable dose. The current amount and effectiveness of disinformation is making society itself unstable. Education could be a big part of it as well, not even teaching people what's correct but how to figure it out. Income inequality isn't exactly helping either. Many people will believe any noisy asshole if their life sucks enough.
- themitigating 5y ago
  How does it guarantee that? What if I have information that so and so in a government is a rapist but a sea of lies implies I'm a traitor or pedophile
- JacobThreeThree 5y ago
  Furthermore, in the grand scheme humans beliefs being 'right' or 'wrong', people today probably have far more 'right' beliefs than ever during history. Conspiracy theories and wrong beliefs have been more prevalent in the past than today.
deleted 5y ago
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vxNsr 5y ago
As usual the NYT tells half the story to advance an agenda. Ten years ago you coulda asked about Area 51 conspiracies and gotten the exact same response rates. If you ask leading questions you’ll get the answers you’re looking for. The poll is bad and the data is meaningless if you’re trying to find out what people think. However if you’re trying to push a specific agenda, and convince a large part of the other 85% that many “others” are crazy and need to be “re-educated”well then it’s a very useful poll. You’ve been had.
- ss108 5y ago
  "Ten years ago you coulda asked about Area 51 conspiracies and gotten the exact same response rates." And that's a good thing to you? I don't get what you're saying. Clearly there are people who believe in QAnon. And that's a problem. Not sure what you're trying to argue.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    Yes, it shows that we're ok with people making their own decisions no matter how deluded, trying to pretend that this is some new phenomenon that is threatening the republic is hyperbole.
ss108 5y ago
Exactly. The combination of free speech and the internet has made things worse in a lot of ways.

Veen 5y ago

The evidence is that it's only 15%. Free speech doesn't guarantee everyone will have right beliefs. In fact, it's a certainly that in a free speech environment lots of people will have crazy beliefs. Free speech does, however, guarantee that no one group can control which ideas—crazy or not—can be expressed. And that, in the long run, ensures that there will be space to push back against the crazy and the harmful, which tends to be good for the less powerful.

kadoban 5y ago
If you're celerating that "only" 15% of people believe the most obvious bullshit anyone could possibly cook up, then your plan is flawed.
- Veen 5y ago
  What would a non-flawed plan look like? One that results in everyone having "correct" beliefs? I'm pretty sure it would be a great deal worse than what we have now.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Nuking social media from orbit would be a good start. Any platform where what content you're shown is primarily driven by an algorithm is very suspect.
    - Veen 5y ago
      On that we can agree. Social media is a scourge. But it's also true that people believed crazy things before social media.
      - kadoban 5y ago
        They did, but a more manageable dose. The current amount and effectiveness of disinformation is making society itself unstable. Education could be a big part of it as well, not even teaching people what's correct but how to figure it out. Income inequality isn't exactly helping either. Many people will believe any noisy asshole if their life sucks enough.
themitigating 5y ago
How does it guarantee that? What if I have information that so and so in a government is a rapist but a sea of lies implies I'm a traitor or pedophile
JacobThreeThree 5y ago
Furthermore, in the grand scheme humans beliefs being 'right' or 'wrong', people today probably have far more 'right' beliefs than ever during history. Conspiracy theories and wrong beliefs have been more prevalent in the past than today.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

vxNsr 5y ago

As usual the NYT tells half the story to advance an agenda. Ten years ago you coulda asked about Area 51 conspiracies and gotten the exact same response rates. If you ask leading questions you’ll get the answers you’re looking for. The poll is bad and the data is meaningless if you’re trying to find out what people think. However if you’re trying to push a specific agenda, and convince a large part of the other 85% that many “others” are crazy and need to be “re-educated”well then it’s a very useful poll. You’ve been had.

ss108 5y ago
"Ten years ago you coulda asked about Area 51 conspiracies and gotten the exact same response rates." And that's a good thing to you? I don't get what you're saying. Clearly there are people who believe in QAnon. And that's a problem. Not sure what you're trying to argue.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  Yes, it shows that we're ok with people making their own decisions no matter how deluded, trying to pretend that this is some new phenomenon that is threatening the republic is hyperbole.

ss108 5y ago

Exactly. The combination of free speech and the internet has made things worse in a lot of ways.