5 ms·

What right do they have to request something like that? Are words copyrightable, or what did this website do? (I've never played wordle)

by naoqj 5y ago

progbits 5y ago
I would also love to hear the justification. At best they could force a name change as presumably they own Wordle trademark.
- tlholaday 5y ago
  > I would also love to hear the justification. Here's a link to the Wikipedia editors' terse description on curated lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_in_lists#Selection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_in_lists#S... A fact you may not know is that the creator and his partner curated the two lists of words-accepted-as-guesses and words-eligible-to-be-daily-targets to remove so-called "Scrabble gibberish."
maratc 5y ago
Words aren't, but their specific selection can be. As it was in this case. (Not a lawyer.) Some mapping companies "invent" non-existing streets on their maps to prove copying.
- zinekeller 5y ago
  There's a nuance there though, in Europe while there's probably no copyright on the words per se, they have a separate but related database rights (which exactly sounds what you think). The design and feel of the site is probably unarguably copyrighted though. While other clones could argue that Wordle is actually a derivation from a much older game, it won't probably help if the design, feel, "dress" and colours are one-to-one to the original thing.
phh 5y ago
Well yes ordered list of words are often copyrightable under the name of "books". I'm not saying it is applicable here, but presenting things to a simplistic form isn't really correct either.
- samatman 5y ago
  "order" doesn't mean "one follows the other" it means sorted or grouped in some fashion. Whether they're subject to copyright is practically speaking case-by-case: "World cities by population", no, "curated list of the best five-letter words for a game like Wordle"? Eh. Wouldn't want to fight NYT over it.
robbrown451 5y ago
The game is copyrightable, of course. (and words, well, of course. Books are words, right?)
- shp0ngle 5y ago
  Game rules in general are not copyrightable. There were some lawsuits about Tetris. You can make a game with the rules like Tetris. But you cannot name it Tetris, and you cannot make it look too much like Tetris.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    The game mechanics aren't copyrightable, but this word-for-word copy of the game rules is copyrightable. The HTML, CSS and JavaScript layout out the page is also copyrightable, and the taken-down site is a direct copy of this
chrisseaton 5y ago
> Are words copyrightable Have you literally never heard of text being copyright?
- scambier 5y ago
  I think there's a little more work involved into writing a book than into randomly shuffling a list of words.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    How do you think people copyright crosswords and word searches?
    - diffeomorphism 5y ago
      First guess: they shouldn't be able to? For life plus 70 years, really? Second guess: crosswords have sufficient creative work involved. A list of random English words with 5 characters?
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Seems to be very successful and valuable for something without ‘sufficient creative work involved’? That’s what the courts would look at.
        diffeomorphism 5y ago
        The wordle game is successful. The list of words is an entirely separate question.
mattbrewsbytes 5y ago
From watching a mathematical breakdown of playing, there are like 13k 5 letter words in english and wordle uses about 2400. There are some really bizzare words that people wouldn't know so the wordle list is narrowed down to common words. I think the only likely thing that might be illegal is using the same name. Game concepts are copied all the time, from what I understand. I'm not a lawyer. Kudos to the guy that wrote it and sold it. I don't see how NYT can monetize it - if they put up a paywall usage goes to 0 real quick.
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  I doubt they'll ever monetize Wordle directly, but the links it displays when you solve a puzzle and in the menu definitely drive traffic to their puzzles that they do monetize. I tried them, and seriously considered subscribing so I could keep playing Spelling Bee (I ultimately decided against it).
e12e 5y ago
In general lists of words (without definitions etc) are not subject to copyright. But there was a lot of controversy around the scrabble word list - I don't recall how that turned out in the end: https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/09/scrabble-copyright-dispute-hasbro-says-it-owns-the-scrabble-dictionary-players-beg-to-differ.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/09/scrabble-copyright-...
qiskit 5y ago
They are a state backed corporation with a harem of slimey lawyers. They can "request" whatever they want. I doubt devang has the time and financial means to deal with months of litigation so he is easy prey for the NYTimes. All he can do is "thank" them for the "request" and move on with his life.

What right do they have to request something like that? Are words copyrightable, or what did this website do? (I've never played wordle)

by naoqj 5y ago

What right do they have to request something like that? Are words copyrightable, or what did this website do? (I've never played wordle)

progbits 5y ago

I would also love to hear the justification. At best they could force a name change as presumably they own Wordle trademark.

tlholaday 5y ago
> I would also love to hear the justification. Here's a link to the Wikipedia editors' terse description on curated lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_in_lists#Selection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_in_lists#S... A fact you may not know is that the creator and his partner curated the two lists of words-accepted-as-guesses and words-eligible-to-be-daily-targets to remove so-called "Scrabble gibberish."

maratc 5y ago

Words aren't, but their specific selection can be. As it was in this case. (Not a lawyer.) Some mapping companies "invent" non-existing streets on their maps to prove copying.

zinekeller 5y ago
There's a nuance there though, in Europe while there's probably no copyright on the words per se, they have a separate but related database rights (which exactly sounds what you think). The design and feel of the site is probably unarguably copyrighted though. While other clones could argue that Wordle is actually a derivation from a much older game, it won't probably help if the design, feel, "dress" and colours are one-to-one to the original thing.

phh 5y ago

Well yes ordered list of words are often copyrightable under the name of "books". I'm not saying it is applicable here, but presenting things to a simplistic form isn't really correct either.

samatman 5y ago
"order" doesn't mean "one follows the other" it means sorted or grouped in some fashion. Whether they're subject to copyright is practically speaking case-by-case: "World cities by population", no, "curated list of the best five-letter words for a game like Wordle"? Eh. Wouldn't want to fight NYT over it.

robbrown451 5y ago

The game is copyrightable, of course. (and words, well, of course. Books are words, right?)

shp0ngle 5y ago
Game rules in general are not copyrightable. There were some lawsuits about Tetris. You can make a game with the rules like Tetris. But you cannot name it Tetris, and you cannot make it look too much like Tetris.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  The game mechanics aren't copyrightable, but this word-for-word copy of the game rules is copyrightable. The HTML, CSS and JavaScript layout out the page is also copyrightable, and the taken-down site is a direct copy of this

chrisseaton 5y ago

> Are words copyrightable Have you literally never heard of text being copyright?

scambier 5y ago
I think there's a little more work involved into writing a book than into randomly shuffling a list of words.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  How do you think people copyright crosswords and word searches?
  - diffeomorphism 5y ago
    First guess: they shouldn't be able to? For life plus 70 years, really? Second guess: crosswords have sufficient creative work involved. A list of random English words with 5 characters?
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Seems to be very successful and valuable for something without ‘sufficient creative work involved’? That’s what the courts would look at.
      - diffeomorphism 5y ago
        The wordle game is successful. The list of words is an entirely separate question.

mattbrewsbytes 5y ago

From watching a mathematical breakdown of playing, there are like 13k 5 letter words in english and wordle uses about 2400. There are some really bizzare words that people wouldn't know so the wordle list is narrowed down to common words. I think the only likely thing that might be illegal is using the same name. Game concepts are copied all the time, from what I understand. I'm not a lawyer. Kudos to the guy that wrote it and sold it. I don't see how NYT can monetize it - if they put up a paywall usage goes to 0 real quick.

frosted-flakes 5y ago
I doubt they'll ever monetize Wordle directly, but the links it displays when you solve a puzzle and in the menu definitely drive traffic to their puzzles that they do monetize. I tried them, and seriously considered subscribing so I could keep playing Spelling Bee (I ultimately decided against it).

e12e 5y ago

In general lists of words (without definitions etc) are not subject to copyright. But there was a lot of controversy around the scrabble word list - I don't recall how that turned out in the end: https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/09/scrabble-copyright-dispute-hasbro-says-it-owns-the-scrabble-dictionary-players-beg-to-differ.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/09/scrabble-copyright-...

qiskit 5y ago

They are a state backed corporation with a harem of slimey lawyers. They can "request" whatever they want. I doubt devang has the time and financial means to deal with months of litigation so he is easy prey for the NYTimes. All he can do is "thank" them for the "request" and move on with his life.