8 ms·

Personally, I support imprisoning anyone who helps subvert sanctions against a despotic state pursuing nuclear weapons.

qbasic_forever 5y ago
Looking forward to see how you'll imprison the German government for continuing to purchase oil from Russia through shell companies like Gazprombank.
- relativeadv 5y ago
  lol, this comment is too much.
  - samhw 5y ago
    Well, he's not wrong, really.
  - mayankkaizen 5y ago
    May be a bit extreme comment but not completely nonsensical. It is raising somewhat valid point. Currently Russian regime is not that much different from NK regime. Both are under sanctions. In fact, Russia is more dangerous than NK in current situation. Germany needs fuel and it is essentially financing Russia. The only difference between NK and Russia is that nobody is dependent on NK for anything. This guy helped NK and went to jail. Germany giving money to Russia (for fuel), it's all ok.
    - Brian_K_White 5y ago
      Germany needs those btu's. And the German authorities are invested with the authority and responsibility to make exactly that sort of decision. Did this guy need to help NK for anything remotely like that sort of responsibility?
      - linspace 5y ago
        > Did this guy need to help NK for anything remotely like that sort of responsibility? This is what keeps me wondering. I guess that a guy with a doctorate from Caltech and in the current technological context could be making a lot of money legally. From outside it looks like he is some kind of crypto idealist.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I think you don't understand how sanctions work.
  - postsantum 5y ago
    I don't think you understand the worldview of the average american
    - some_random 5y ago
      How is that relevant in the current discussion?
- stickfigure 5y ago
  At the moment that is still legal. The German government may decide to change that in the future.
  - SkyBelow 5y ago
    >At the moment that is still legal. Is the discussion on what is legal or on what is moral to legally enforce? I had read the parent discussion as being the latter.
    - function_seven 5y ago
      Both. But if an action is both immoral and still legal, it is then wrong to jail people for it. Fix the law to match the morality.
- watwut 5y ago
  Germany is not breaking the law there. They are preventing the law from happening, which is something different entirely. Also, USA does not have jurisdiction over Germany. Nor should have.
zopa 5y ago
No issue with your main point, but "pursuing nuclear weapons" is such a strange and revealing phrase. North Korea has nuclear weapons. They've had nuclear weapons for at least 16 years (probably over 20). The last best chance to roll back their nuclear program was in the mid-aughts, and it didn't work. Lots of good and useful steps we could pursue to reduce tensions and make an accidental nuclear war on the Korean peninsula less likely, even with a regime as awful as the one in Pyongyang. But being a superpower means never needing to admit we've lost at something, I guess.
- heyoni 5y ago
  So are they just missing ICBM’s then?
- JustLurking2022 5y ago
  That's not accurate, a nuclear capability is not as binary as you make it out to be. In no particular order, there's: - Having a bomb - having one that works consistently (NK has conducted tests that likely failed to produce the expected yield) - having a device miniaturized to go on a missile - having a missile capable of hitting targets at significant range (reliably) - solid fuel rocketry (fueling can be a giveaway of an imminent strike on liquid fueled, allowing preemptive action) - Evading missile defense systems - MIRV
  - zopa 5y ago
    You can argue that it's oversimplified, but it's definitely not inaccurate. I'm not even sure it's oversimplified, though. Your list is a good set of things to worry about if you're going to fight a nuclear war. But from a strategic perspective, what matters is whether the capability is enough to deter, and I'd argue that even the lower end of likely North Korean capabilities is plenty, for most scenarios besides an outright North Korean invasion of South Korea. Yeah, the missiles might miss and maybe the bombs won't explode, but are you really willing to gamble with Seoul, Tokyo and Los Angeles? Anyway --- sure, let's negotiate about missile technology. That'd be great. But those negotiations aren't going to go anywhere unless we recognize that full nuclear disarmament in the near-term is a big ask, and extremely unlikely.
tediousdemise 5y ago
Let's put emotions aside and look at the situation. This man is an expert in his field and possesses a lot of knowledge. He doesn't have to share this information with anyone, but he does so for the advancement and progression of society. Sharing information in this scenario was evidently a crime. How did we get to the point where knowledge sharing lands you in prison? It's because we have mindless shells of human beings in society, the type of people that would call this man a traitor. Let me set something straight: if you are a citizen of a country, it doesn't imply that you love and support your country. You are likely a citizen simply because you were born and trapped there. If you have an urge to defend and protect an imperialistic, globally-dominating sack of shit like the United States Government, you're part of the problem. Nationalism is a disease.
- w7 5y ago
  You can't completely set aside national ties until everyone else does. Otherwise, those who still operate with that mind set exploit you. It's a nice thought, but unrealistic.

Looking forward to see how you'll imprison the German government for continuing to purchase oil from Russia through shell companies like Gazprombank.

relativeadv 5y ago
lol, this comment is too much.
- samhw 5y ago
  Well, he's not wrong, really.
- mayankkaizen 5y ago
  May be a bit extreme comment but not completely nonsensical. It is raising somewhat valid point. Currently Russian regime is not that much different from NK regime. Both are under sanctions. In fact, Russia is more dangerous than NK in current situation. Germany needs fuel and it is essentially financing Russia. The only difference between NK and Russia is that nobody is dependent on NK for anything. This guy helped NK and went to jail. Germany giving money to Russia (for fuel), it's all ok.
  - Brian_K_White 5y ago
    Germany needs those btu's. And the German authorities are invested with the authority and responsibility to make exactly that sort of decision. Did this guy need to help NK for anything remotely like that sort of responsibility?
    - linspace 5y ago
      > Did this guy need to help NK for anything remotely like that sort of responsibility? This is what keeps me wondering. I guess that a guy with a doctorate from Caltech and in the current technological context could be making a lot of money legally. From outside it looks like he is some kind of crypto idealist.
kelnos 5y ago
I think you don't understand how sanctions work.
- postsantum 5y ago
  I don't think you understand the worldview of the average american
  - some_random 5y ago
    How is that relevant in the current discussion?
stickfigure 5y ago
At the moment that is still legal. The German government may decide to change that in the future.
- SkyBelow 5y ago
  >At the moment that is still legal. Is the discussion on what is legal or on what is moral to legally enforce? I had read the parent discussion as being the latter.
  - function_seven 5y ago
    Both. But if an action is both immoral and still legal, it is then wrong to jail people for it. Fix the law to match the morality.
watwut 5y ago
Germany is not breaking the law there. They are preventing the law from happening, which is something different entirely. Also, USA does not have jurisdiction over Germany. Nor should have.

zopa 5y ago

No issue with your main point, but "pursuing nuclear weapons" is such a strange and revealing phrase. North Korea has nuclear weapons. They've had nuclear weapons for at least 16 years (probably over 20). The last best chance to roll back their nuclear program was in the mid-aughts, and it didn't work. Lots of good and useful steps we could pursue to reduce tensions and make an accidental nuclear war on the Korean peninsula less likely, even with a regime as awful as the one in Pyongyang. But being a superpower means never needing to admit we've lost at something, I guess.

heyoni 5y ago
So are they just missing ICBM’s then?
JustLurking2022 5y ago
That's not accurate, a nuclear capability is not as binary as you make it out to be. In no particular order, there's: - Having a bomb - having one that works consistently (NK has conducted tests that likely failed to produce the expected yield) - having a device miniaturized to go on a missile - having a missile capable of hitting targets at significant range (reliably) - solid fuel rocketry (fueling can be a giveaway of an imminent strike on liquid fueled, allowing preemptive action) - Evading missile defense systems - MIRV
- zopa 5y ago
  You can argue that it's oversimplified, but it's definitely not inaccurate. I'm not even sure it's oversimplified, though. Your list is a good set of things to worry about if you're going to fight a nuclear war. But from a strategic perspective, what matters is whether the capability is enough to deter, and I'd argue that even the lower end of likely North Korean capabilities is plenty, for most scenarios besides an outright North Korean invasion of South Korea. Yeah, the missiles might miss and maybe the bombs won't explode, but are you really willing to gamble with Seoul, Tokyo and Los Angeles? Anyway --- sure, let's negotiate about missile technology. That'd be great. But those negotiations aren't going to go anywhere unless we recognize that full nuclear disarmament in the near-term is a big ask, and extremely unlikely.

tediousdemise 5y ago

Let's put emotions aside and look at the situation. This man is an expert in his field and possesses a lot of knowledge. He doesn't have to share this information with anyone, but he does so for the advancement and progression of society. Sharing information in this scenario was evidently a crime. How did we get to the point where knowledge sharing lands you in prison? It's because we have mindless shells of human beings in society, the type of people that would call this man a traitor. Let me set something straight: if you are a citizen of a country, it doesn't imply that you love and support your country. You are likely a citizen simply because you were born and trapped there. If you have an urge to defend and protect an imperialistic, globally-dominating sack of shit like the United States Government, you're part of the problem. Nationalism is a disease.

w7 5y ago
You can't completely set aside national ties until everyone else does. Otherwise, those who still operate with that mind set exploit you. It's a nice thought, but unrealistic.