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The need for stricter border security is well established. When our borders are not secure as one political party tends to favor, poor Mexicans die and drug car

The need for stricter border security is well established. When our borders are not secure as one political party tends to favor, poor Mexicans die and drug cartels gain money and power. Maybe a fence along with other measures, increasing patrols, harsher penalties, is actually the most humane solution to Mexican drug cartel problem?

MrMan 5y ago
we need to end the drug war and create more open borders between NAFTA signatories.
iancmceachern 5y ago
No, this doesn't solve the problem, it puts a fence around it. We should solve the problem.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Mexico is a sovereign nation. The United States solving the problem is both a violation of Mexico's sovereignty and a very paternal reaction that denies the Mexican people their agency.
  - cruano 5y ago
    You say that like the US is not their biggest customer of illegal drugs.
    - nradov 5y ago
      That's true, but Mexico also exports huge quantities of narcotics to Canada, Europe, and other countries. Who is responsible for solving the problem? And regardless of responsibility for causing or solving the problem, we absolutely need to improve border security. Physical fences aren't very effective in most areas but better sensors and more human guards could do a lot to reduce smuggling and human trafficking.
    - atmartins 5y ago
      And has spent billions attempting to limit their purchase & international movement. Maybe it should continue to be a joint effort rather than finger pointing that one side isn't doing enough.
    - someguydave 5y ago
      which means the US can dictate Mexican policy?
  - iancmceachern 5y ago
    I dont think that the Mexican people are actively choosing this. I don't think they want it either (drug trade). So if our goals are aligned, why is it considered a violation of their sovereignty and not just helping a neighbor out. If my neighbor has an issue on their property, and they ask me not to intervene I will not cross onto their property to help, even if I think I should (unless you know, murder or whatever). But if my neighbor asks me to help, we should work together. It seems like we can work together in a more overt, positive, non-covert CIA way. I'm not saying this would work for certain, just that aybe we should try something new.
- vondur 5y ago
  How does the US "solve" this problem? I don't see any direct way of doing this without some sort of military intervention. Is that what you are suggesting?
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  The claim is not that a border wall would keep violent cartels out of the US, but that it would drive down the drug profits fueling Mexico's violence. I'm not sure I agree with this claim, but "this puts a fence around it" seems like a complete misunderstanding of it.
  - matthewdgreen 5y ago
    If walls worked, our prisons wouldn't be full of drugs. These systems will by bypassed and corrupted easily by well-funded drug cartels.
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      Sure, but then we're not "putting a wall around the problem" either. Like I said, I'm not agreeing with the claim, but your objection contradicted itself
UncleEntity 5y ago
In all reality the Mexican cartels are the beneficiaries of The War on Drugs as they are serving a well established market for illegal drugs where the government offers no protections (quite the opposite actually) to the market participants so whoever can muster up the most firepower is the ‘market leader’.
lolsal 5y ago
> The need for stricter border security is well established. This is orthogonal to the humanitarian issue happening in Mexico for the last few decades. > When our borders are not secure as one political party tends to favor, poor Mexicans die and drug cartels gain money and power. Maybe a fence along with other measures, increasing patrols, harsher penalties, is actually the most humane solution to Mexican drug cartel problem? Sorry, but you're out of your mind. I'm a native Texan and the last thing I want is a fence separating our us from our brothers and sisters south of the border. We should be helping the Mexicans, not abandoning them to violence and cartel terrorism. I would rather they seek refuge here than die on the other side of a fence.

MrMan 5y ago

we need to end the drug war and create more open borders between NAFTA signatories.

iancmceachern 5y ago

No, this doesn't solve the problem, it puts a fence around it. We should solve the problem.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Mexico is a sovereign nation. The United States solving the problem is both a violation of Mexico's sovereignty and a very paternal reaction that denies the Mexican people their agency.
- cruano 5y ago
  You say that like the US is not their biggest customer of illegal drugs.
  - nradov 5y ago
    That's true, but Mexico also exports huge quantities of narcotics to Canada, Europe, and other countries. Who is responsible for solving the problem? And regardless of responsibility for causing or solving the problem, we absolutely need to improve border security. Physical fences aren't very effective in most areas but better sensors and more human guards could do a lot to reduce smuggling and human trafficking.
  - atmartins 5y ago
    And has spent billions attempting to limit their purchase & international movement. Maybe it should continue to be a joint effort rather than finger pointing that one side isn't doing enough.
  - someguydave 5y ago
    which means the US can dictate Mexican policy?
- iancmceachern 5y ago
  I dont think that the Mexican people are actively choosing this. I don't think they want it either (drug trade). So if our goals are aligned, why is it considered a violation of their sovereignty and not just helping a neighbor out. If my neighbor has an issue on their property, and they ask me not to intervene I will not cross onto their property to help, even if I think I should (unless you know, murder or whatever). But if my neighbor asks me to help, we should work together. It seems like we can work together in a more overt, positive, non-covert CIA way. I'm not saying this would work for certain, just that aybe we should try something new.
vondur 5y ago
How does the US "solve" this problem? I don't see any direct way of doing this without some sort of military intervention. Is that what you are suggesting?
wutbrodo 5y ago
The claim is not that a border wall would keep violent cartels out of the US, but that it would drive down the drug profits fueling Mexico's violence. I'm not sure I agree with this claim, but "this puts a fence around it" seems like a complete misunderstanding of it.
- matthewdgreen 5y ago
  If walls worked, our prisons wouldn't be full of drugs. These systems will by bypassed and corrupted easily by well-funded drug cartels.
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    Sure, but then we're not "putting a wall around the problem" either. Like I said, I'm not agreeing with the claim, but your objection contradicted itself

UncleEntity 5y ago

In all reality the Mexican cartels are the beneficiaries of The War on Drugs as they are serving a well established market for illegal drugs where the government offers no protections (quite the opposite actually) to the market participants so whoever can muster up the most firepower is the ‘market leader’.

lolsal 5y ago

> The need for stricter border security is well established. This is orthogonal to the humanitarian issue happening in Mexico for the last few decades. > When our borders are not secure as one political party tends to favor, poor Mexicans die and drug cartels gain money and power. Maybe a fence along with other measures, increasing patrols, harsher penalties, is actually the most humane solution to Mexican drug cartel problem? Sorry, but you're out of your mind. I'm a native Texan and the last thing I want is a fence separating our us from our brothers and sisters south of the border. We should be helping the Mexicans, not abandoning them to violence and cartel terrorism. I would rather they seek refuge here than die on the other side of a fence.